Making LÖVE together!

General discussion about LÖVE, Lua, game development, puns, and unicorns.

Which gameplay elements are most important in RPG for you? (pick 3)

balance
12
7%
economy
10
6%
exploration
34
21%
fights
15
9%
NPC interaction
20
12%
puzzles
9
6%
realism
1
1%
story
31
19%
world interactions
29
18%
 
Total votes: 161

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Taehl
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Re: Why don't we...

Post by Taehl » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:03 am

giniu wrote:
Taehl wrote:Sorry, but I can't stand JRPGs. But spare you all that rant.
well, I hope for fresh design so don't judge too early, for now genre and setting is set, and that manner you can think also for example about Arcanum if you want, also steam-punk rpg and far from jrpg. But napco will decide for this project, as he came with the idea :)
Unless it somehow avoids ALL the following "features", I'm not going to like it:

- A nonsensical, overly dramatic story (especially if it involves some kind of world-destroying ancient evil which can only be stopped by a few teenage prettyboys with ridiculous hair)
- Bad dialogue which is only half voiceacted
- A heavy reliance on number-crunching
- The best items can only be found by going to GameFAQs
- A separate overworld travel, normal wandering around, and battle screen
- Grinding (this includes "Hey Mr. Endgame Godkiller, you need to use my boat to get to the Mountain of Ancient Evil? Well then you'll have to find me the 25 Magic Medallions, which have been hidden all over the world!")
- Showing concept art or prerendered cutscenes and claiming they're in-game graphics

And most importantly:
- The Famicom-era "HAY GUYS LETS STAND IN TWO LINES AND TAKE TURNS HITTING EACH OTHER!" mechanic (adding timers, counter-attacks, troop positioning, combos, "limit breaks", or /any other gimmick/ isn't going to make this any less retarded and unfun to me)

In other words, if, I dare say, you guys don't make a JRPG. That being said, if you /do/ avoid all those pitfalls, I'd have a good chance of being interested, and would potentially contribute.
Earliest Love2D supporter who can't Love anymore. Let me disable pixel shaders if I don't use them, dammit!
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napco
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Re: Making LÖVE together!

Post by napco » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:47 am

Well, it's kinda impossible to avoid all the things you've mentioned. I agree with the world savage thing, but most of the other things are essential to an RPG, like grinding (if i haven't misunderstood it)... If you'd like to help i'd be glad, but else "de gustibus non est disputandum"... Sorry for the language, but i can't really explain it in english ^^

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Taehl
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Re: Making LÖVE together!

Post by Taehl » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:30 am

Are you trying to say that Latin is your native language, then? I know that "there's no disputing about tastes", but this is mostly a matter of making a good game, not personal preference. Grinding is absolutely not required for any game, despite how often it's used. Just look at the name "Role-Playing Game". It means the game is (supposed to be) about acting a character in a certain setting, about portraying a persona with its unique motivations. One could argue the killing a thousand enemies just to get to the next level is actually /anti-/RPG, as a character would realistically wonder why they're doing this, and probably get bored. Grinding is the fons et origo of bad games, and you shouldn't let them have dominium mundi over your perceptions of gaming. Wouldn't it be a case of fex urbis lex orbis, letting bad games so control the ones in development? Why these trends continue, ignoramus et ignorabimus. ;)
Earliest Love2D supporter who can't Love anymore. Let me disable pixel shaders if I don't use them, dammit!
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napco
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Re: Making LÖVE together!

Post by napco » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:55 am

Nope, my native language is italian, but we use that concept very often. I've googled "grinding" and found out that i have misunderstood it... I don't like grinding myself! I've confused it with the sidequests usage, that i LOVE. The (fight - levelUP - fight) loop will be removed by writing a battle system that considers 30-40% level and 60-70% battle tactics. If your idea of RPG is a "D&D"-like game then i'll say that i love them (and played them also), but on the paper. On the video i prefer "lighter" games, like JRPGs...

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dandruff
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Re: Making LÖVE together!

Post by dandruff » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:40 am

I would love to help with the game. I could work with graphics or simpler coding. Is it possible to try to make a game that focuses on the "quest" more than other killing to get to the next point? I mean, in Secret of mana for example (Hell of a good game though), you get to know where you should go... then you fight your way through 500 small mobs that's only anoying too realize you took the wrong turn a couple of screens ago. I wouldn't mind a more puzzle based game. Know how I mean? :megagrin:

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Re: Making LÖVE together!

Post by giniu » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:05 am

napco wrote:Whoops... In the "role assignment post" i've put giniu instead of kalle under the "graphics" section... Updated it and also the topic title! Let me know if you like your role!
Better :)
napco wrote:I agree with giniu's idea... Maybe i'm a little conservative. So, let's revolutionize everything! (yay!!!) By the way, i'm quite new to the "world of game programming", so i don't know what git and mercurial are... If they're something like google code then i think it wouldn't be a bad idea to post our code there, but i prefer a forum topic to talk about the status of the project and to share our ideas...
Git or Mercurial are decentralised version control systems, serves same purpose as Subversion but with different philosophy, where everyone have lightweight copy of whole history and can do very easy branching, renames, and much more - and github or bitbucket are free hosting place like google code - so yes, it's close. The choice between git or mercurial is pretty cosmetic, but I would vote against using non distributed system like svn - I tried decentralized distributed systems and didn't wanted to turn back :) Now for most projects I use http://github.com/ and I like it.

I'm glad you like idea of creating something totally new :) Well, maybe not totally but something fresh I hope - fresh and tasty :) So for now we have genre (RPG) and setting (steam-punk, dark mixture of technology and magic) - or we set poll for choosing setting? If we are set with it, we should be going to next phases - the leading concept around which we build gameplay maybe? So would it be NPC interaction, fights, storytelling, economy, puzzle or exploration maybe? I know all are parts of what in common sense is rpg, but we should pick one (max two) main that have stronger influence on gameplay than others. It's easier to do something good when you have better focus on game concept :) If we still consider changing setting, maybe let's start making polls about it and see what people like to do? If not I recommend poll with those key focus points for gameplay :) Still from every combination good game can be made, so we can let others pick :)

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napco
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Re: Making LÖVE together!

Post by napco » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:26 am

dandruff wrote:I would love to help with the game. I could work with graphics or simpler coding.
Role-assignment post updated ^^
dandruff wrote:Is it possible to try to make a game that focuses on the "quest" more than other killing to get to the next point? I mean, in Secret of mana for example (Hell of a good game though), you get to know where you should go... then you fight your way through 500 small mobs that's only anoying too realize you took the wrong turn a couple of screens ago. I wouldn't mind a more puzzle based game. Know how I mean? :megagrin:
I'd like to keep fights, but they will be less mechanical than secret of mana and more tactical... I love puzzles (i was grown with zelda) and i'll certainly add them!
giniu wrote:I'm glad you like idea of creating something totally new :) Well, maybe not totally but something fresh I hope - fresh and tasty :) So for now we have genre (RPG) and setting (steam-punk, dark mixture of technology and magic) - or we set poll for choosing setting? If we are set with it, we should be going to next phases - the leading concept around which we build gameplay maybe? So would it be NPC interaction, fights, storytelling, economy, puzzle or exploration maybe? I know all are parts of what in common sense is rpg, but we should pick one (max two) main that have stronger influence on gameplay than others. It's easier to do something good when you have better focus on game concept :) If we still consider changing setting, maybe let's start making polls about it and see what people like to do? If not I recommend poll with those key focus points for gameplay :) Still from every combination good game can be made, so we can let others pick :)
I'd like steampunk setting, but let's make a poll to see what people think! For the leading concept i suggest storyline, puzzles and fights!

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Re: Making LÖVE together!

Post by giniu » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:12 am

I looked at poll options you gave, probably could you explain a bit what you mean by separate option "dark"? I'd say each of other options could be made in such style, but it depends what you mean with it :)

Oh, and two more things - I think this topic could be moved to "Projects and Demos" from "General", can get more audience that way and just fits better there, and about poll - how what will be closing policy? like 5 days unless no more than (2*number of options) votes, then another 5 days (in current case, if less than 10 votes in 5 days we keep voting open for 10 days, otherwise for 5 days)? Other than that we could have troubles deciding when to stop waiting for new opinions - what do you think?
Last edited by giniu on Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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napco
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Re: Making LÖVE together!

Post by napco » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:16 am

You're right... Maybe i should have added multi-vote option! By dark i mean a game with a (soft) dark atmosphere!

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Re: Making LÖVE together!

Post by pekka » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:46 am

I like the idea and would be interested in supporting it. I'll keep an eye on the project and think about taking part later, perhaps after my Lovefest 1/10 entry is done (crossign fingers). I'm primarily a programmer. I can make some graphics, but not professional quality. However, don't mark me down as a contributor yet, please. I'll come back.

If you set things up well, you can allow people contribute even in small ways. You could and in fact should have a wish-list of features you'd like to add, but haven't gotten around to working on yet. You could very well get someone like me to pitch in occasionally and work on some of them, even though we might not become part of the core developer group.

It'll also be good to have a core set of people who will be working on this steadily, as it will show people the project is viable and going on. I'd hate to see it stall because people who were initially enthusiastic just drop out later for various reasons. So, I hope you who do sign up think of it as making some level of actual commitment. And do keep us informed with regular news, even if sometimes there might not be that much actual new news--for example due to everyone being busy with school/work/life and what not. There will always be something to write as long as the project is alive! Please keep it that way.

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