Making LÖVE together!

General discussion about LÖVE, Lua, game development, puns, and unicorns.

Which gameplay elements are most important in RPG for you? (pick 3)

balance
12
7%
economy
10
6%
exploration
34
21%
fights
15
9%
NPC interaction
20
12%
puzzles
9
6%
realism
1
1%
story
31
19%
world interactions
29
18%
 
Total votes: 161

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bartbes
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Re: Making LÖVE together!

Post by bartbes » Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:45 pm

giniu wrote:OK, so somehow my post got deleted - probably because no one is interested [...]
Woah.. calm down, nobody removed your post, the forum lost a few posts when it switched servers (the server it was running on had some problems). I admit I have not read all your posts fully, but I have followed the thread and am eager to see what game you produce, and I think this goes for a lot of people, keep up the good work.

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Re: Making LÖVE together!

Post by giniu » Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:12 pm

Well, it looked that way, but it turns out I just picked bad moment to post - I know some software that automatically fuses or deletes double-posts so I though something like that happened. This doesn't change the fact, that it was fifth post in row, so I felt a bit bad about it if you know what I'm talking about :) Anyway I'll contribute to this project as long as we have resources to keep it rolling. I hope people will be bit more active when we will get hands dirty in first prototypes?

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kalle2990
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Re: Making LÖVE together!

Post by kalle2990 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:14 pm

giniu wrote:I hope people will be bit more active when we will get hands dirty in first prototypes?
I will get more active at that point ^^

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Re: Making LÖVE together!

Post by giniu » Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:54 pm

kalle2990 wrote:
giniu wrote:I hope people will be bit more active when we will get hands dirty in first prototypes?
I will get more active at that point ^^
glad to hear :)

Anyway, decided to give you all small update

preparing focus is going well, I hope I will post it for voting on 4'th or 5'th and soon after that initial version of documentation will be published on codaset (http://codaset.com/)in git repository. There will be ways to contribute without account, but it would be best if most frequent contributors will get one. It's free git hosting and better than github I think (1 private/semi-private project and as many public projects as you want with 200MB space "each", not like you get with github - 300mb for all public projects) - though it's still in beta it looks a lot better with more *useful* features so I will put the project there. So if anyone is interested, grab account soon, put your ssh key in, do all setup so you will be ready from day 1 :) - and if anyone doesn't know how to "git", go for http://progit.org/book/ and read chapters 2 and 3 (or also chapter 1 if you need help with installation or don't know what decentralized version control system is), in my opinion it's best book for starting with git, lots of graphics, pictures, easy and advanced topics... very well explained and on creative commons - one thing though, if you use windows go for http://code.google.com/p/tortoisegit/ instead of using msysgit straight as described. For documentation we will use docbook standard, but there will be current compiled pdf version (currently test version has 14 pages, but it will grow quickly) - I already made scripts and some style files to produce good looking and readable documentations with automatically inserted history and version number from git history, so no need to write it down. If you want to help with editing, get to know it - I recommend wysiwyg editor if you are starting with it, I have good experiences with open source version of Serna: http://www.syntext.com/products/serna-free/. There will also be wiki with all tasks to do and milestones with all prototypes that we will work on, it's also planned and almost done.

To sum it up, I think we can start in week, so we might begin warming up :) After focus is posted and voted/accepted, project page with all stuff will be magically on ;)

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willurd
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Re: Making LÖVE together!

Post by willurd » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:59 am

I'm interested :) I'll be honest though, I'm not great with physics or 3d math. I'm happy to help wherever possible though, and I've always wanted to make an ff-style rpg :) I play a couple instruments too so I might be able to help with audio tracks, though this would be my first time writing music for a game. Anywho, I'm excited about helping out and seeing where this goes!

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willurd
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Re: Making LÖVE together!

Post by willurd » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:05 am

By the way, someone mentioned Secret of Mana earlier. I actually really liked the real-time aspect of its battles. It made leveling up much less of a chore. Pacing is definitely important in an RPG, so it'd be beneficial to at least give consideration to real time battles.

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xnellex
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Re: Making LÖVE together!

Post by xnellex » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:30 pm

well, it was mentioned before that there will be turn-based fights not real time. besides, fights haven't been chosen as one of the crucial elements of the gameplay, I know that they're quite high in the poll's results, but don't look at it - the poll should have been removed a long time ago.

giniu and I have completed the game's focus. he will post it later, and, well, let's just wait :)

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Re: Making LÖVE together!

Post by giniu » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:48 pm

Hi willurd,
willurd wrote:I'm interested :) I'll be honest though, I'm not great with physics or 3d math. [..] Anywho, I'm excited about helping out and seeing where this goes!
I'm really really glad to hear this, each and every contribution will be welcomed :) You wouldn't need too much math or physics though, as set in design goals it will be trimetric projection, so most probably we wouldn't need advanced physics or math other than collisions with environment, nothing as fancy as box2D I think wouldn't be needed - unless someone finds and proves use for it. I don't see how it could be useful for this project - so in short - don't worry, for sure you will find something you will be able to do for this project :)

xnellex mentioned turn based fights, but it's worth to add that we also aim for dynamic fights, and we believe it can be done using timed time turn based systems too (how it is in to-be focus and posts earlier). Don't expect singleton 1-1 turns or wait-forever turns. They even can be hidden from player later or left to players preferences if we are to hide it, but still from mechanics point of view, they will be mostly turn based

Pretty soon there will be project on web, with prototypes as milestones and stuff that need contribution listed as tickets to take, everyone could browse trough what isn't done and just pick whatever one likes :) So maybe now some small status update

It was mentioned in last post, focus will be posted today for voting (best estimate is within 3 hours), but there is slight change to what I said in past about that it will be final focus. Due to uncertainty if it will be accepted or not, game doesn't have name yet. In focus it is shown as THEGAME for easy substitution later on. We will choose all name from all propositions later (exact process will be described when time comes), but wait with it for at least seeing full focus or best for when it's accepted.

Voting for acceptance will be "Yes/No" poll, but with slight change in comparison to previous polls. Valid "No" votes are only those, where someone says "Why" in comment. It shouldn't be too hard to say why if you really think something is wrong, we are willing to fix any glitch in it, but we must know what doesn't work. If focus passes, all "No" votes will be considered by designers anyway, but are not necessary to end up in it - after all majority likes it how it is - unless we find some idea brilliant, then we will be happy to cherrypick it anyway. If focus wouldn't be accepted what's the darker scenario, we will browse trough potential reasons, propose one more solution for each problem (where applicable), and post a polls for "old version/compromise version/proposed version" to finally pick what was voted most. After that, we will have new focus that most agree with and we will repeat the process. Process will not be repeated more than 3 times, and best twice at most - after all if someone didn't liked something that was here before he could say it, and all that was changed was voted, so there shouldn't be reason to vote more than twice. Oh and more thing - not liking something that was voted before is no-go, such "No" vote shouldn't be counted I think. There is stuff we already agreed on and we shouldn't change it unless we don't want the project to end design stage in finite time. So the design goals are for now set in stone!

After focus is set, we choose name of the game - and when it's done we will open long time mentioned project page on web - we just wanted to name the project page same as game name and constant vision, that's why the wait :)

Oh, and one more thing - I'd be happy to have project posted on web somewhere around 18'th March - so two weeks. Don't expect polls to stay on long, they will be quickies (3-4 days probably) so if you want to vote, don't wait for others, just do it as soon as you see there is something to vote for ;)

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Re: Making LÖVE together!

Post by giniu » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:19 pm

So, here is focus as it is now - attached as pdf file. Vote (and leave the "No" explanations) at http://poll.fm/1nu7w. There will be also reminder about rules in first comment there and in my previous post here. Let the voting begin! :)

I think we can close poll on Sunday, but let's see how it comes out Let's say we close on Sunday if there will be at least 10 votes, if not we wait day longer and decrease minimum number of votes by 2 (1 day and 8 votes, 2 days longer and min 6 votes, ... - so there is no way that this poll will stay longer than till Friday and that's not too probable)

--edit:

Focus was supposed to have one concept included, but it arrived too late for publishing. So here it goes, to prove it's not only text that's happening and make some power-up to this project.Remember it's all work in progress and only to get hang on (try out, train, etc) style for now, not actual scene or game view or anything - it's only stylistics concept art!

ENJOY:
Image

If you have any comments on what there is already, just shoot - it's still early for this project and we can easily adjust now, later it will be lot harder!

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willurd
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Re: Making LÖVE together!

Post by willurd » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:54 am

I replied to the poll, but figured I'd paste my comments here to keep discussion on the board.

---

I like where this is going. I just have a few thoughts.

I like that NPCs respond to things like lies the hero tells and the clothes he is wearing. The usefulness of that can be illustrated in an example:

After the hero wakes up in the hospital after the train crash he'll be setting out to find answers. He will soon find that not too many people want to talk to him because his clothes are dirty and torn. He'll have to find new clothes before he'll be able to get any answers from anybody that might know something. He was robbed just after the train crash, so he won't have any money. This quest will require him to get money and then purchase clothes, or do something for someone in return for clothes. This job he'll have to do could be any number of things: the tried-and-true "rid our village of some monsters" job, the "deliver this package to some person" job, the "deliver this message to another town" job, etc. The point is that a smart AI opens up storyline possibilities.

As far as the train crash goes, maybe this is implied by the fact that the hero was on a train, but I think it's crucial to the story that the city he's in when he wakes up is a place he's never been to. That way no one (probably) will know him. The story will have to advance somehow, so maybe somebody in that city will know something about the crash or send him on a quest that will "luckily" lead him to information about the crash and about who he his. If that's what happens, our hero might soon discover that nothing is coincidence, that somebody is out there pulling the strings.

Of course, that's just a thought. I'm trying to take in everything that has been discussed up until this point. The focus doc mentioned something about the hero's story playing a non-critical role in the overarching story of the game world, which might negate the previous idea.

I also like the fact that the hero has nightmares. If we have the resources, we could use that to play, for instance, moving comic-style animated sequences that would serve to further the story, give more "character" to the characters, and give us a chance to show the world in a more vibrant manor.

I do have a couple of questions as well. You said the hero has access to every part of the game world, but what makes up that game world? You mentioned that the country where the action takes place is secluded from the rest of the world. Does that mean that no other countries beside that one will play a part in this game? Or has that not been decided yet?

Also, the doc says that battles will not be an important part of the game. I'm wondering, then, what is their purpose for existing in the game at all? I'm not suggesting that you can't have battles in games without them playing a crucial role. I'm just wondering what role they play in _this_ game.

My biggest question though is, what really is the point of this game/story? Is it to discover who you once were? Is it to stop some sort of conspiracy (the Community of the Faithful comes to mind...)? Is it to right the wrongs of your past? Is it let go of your past and find a new "you", maybe by helping the people around you? In other words, what is going to keep the player playing? What is their motivation?

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