Русификация

General discussion about LÖVE, Lua, game development, puns, and unicorns.
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Zenku
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Re: Русификация

Post by Zenku » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:28 pm

I could suggest an Spanish forum too
Take care of your thoughts because they'll become words
Take care of your words because they'll become acts
Take care of acts because they'll forge your character
Take care of character because it'll determine your destiny
and your destiny ll be your life

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Robin
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Re: Русификация

Post by Robin » Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:18 pm

qubodup wrote:And once their english skills increase (it will because programming = english language)
Not really. The keywords in Lua are English, but beyond that...

Now a good way to learn a language is to communicate in it.

(Note that at this point I'm neither pro- nor anti-fragmentation.)
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kikito
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Re: Русификация

Post by kikito » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:13 pm

First of all, I'm not a native English speaker: I'm Spanish.

This comment might grant me some enemies, but I'm against going multi-lingual.

If a russian guy has a problem and I know the solution, I can help him, provided that he asks the question in one language I understand.

If I have a question about "collisions", I want to search the forum for "collision". I don't want to search for "colisión", "scontri" and "colisão".

And then there's the source code: I believe that all source code (including variable names, comments, all of it) should be in English. English should be a prerequisite. Someone who doesn't speak English should not be allowed to program.

I want to be able to read your code, guys. I also want you to be able to read mine. "auteur" is difficult to understand for non-french-speakers; but they will understand "height".

Also, Lua (or pretty much any other programming language) code with non-English words looks ... well, like this:

Code: Select all

  -- Esta forme de escrever código est molto orribile
  for elemento,chave in pairs(tavola) do
    feijoada = math.sin(tortilla_de_patatas)
    tortellini = table.insert(peperoni, pomodoro)
  end
Arrgh.

Please learn English.

Sorry if I was too harsh.
When I write def I mean function.

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Robin
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Re: Русификация

Post by Robin » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:40 pm

Good points, kikito, but I don't completely agree with you.

The one thing I want to add is: it doesn't matter if everyone speaks English, just that they all have a common language, which on the LÖVE CLUB happens to be English.

But not everywhere English taught or taught well enough on schools, which means there are people who will be left out.

A division in multiple languages will probably enlarge our loverbase, but to ensure the flow of knowledge works, the (bilingual) administrators of the subcommunity have to not only keep the subcommunity up to date, but also keep the main community informed of events in the subcommunity (such as that any Russian bug reports have to end up on the issue tracker, in English).

And yes, Lua (just like most common programming languages) uses English keywords and standard library functions, which makes combination with other languages look hackish to say the least.
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nevon
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Re: Русификация

Post by nevon » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:09 pm

Just like Robin and Kikito, English is not my first language, yet I too agree with what kikito says; with one exception. I absolutely think that you should be "allowed" to program even if you don't know English, however, you should still use English in your code. You don't have to have great grammar or a huge vocabulary to be able to give your variables English names. If you ever plan on sharing your code with someone else, write it in English. The internetz is a worldwide community where the dominating language is English. Deal with it.

Localized documentation is great, but it will have to be kept up to date - and that's hard when you have to maintain it in more than one language.

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qubodup
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Re: Русификация

Post by qubodup » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:15 pm

Zenku wrote:I could suggest an Spanish forum too
would you moderate it?
Robin wrote:(Note that at this point I'm neither pro- nor anti-fragmentation.)
My optimistic stance is that 'fragmentation' is not what would happen but rather 'addition'.
Robin wrote:A division in multiple languages will probably enlarge our loverbase, but to ensure the flow of knowledge works, the (bilingual) administrators of the subcommunity have to not only keep the subcommunity up to date, but also keep the main community informed of events in the subcommunity (such as that any Russian bug reports have to end up on the issue tracker, in English).
The non-english moderators would have the task of letting information flow. The only way to add language spheres to this community is if they are self-maintained and the administrators do not have to wast any more time except for assigning moderators. :) So basically the language subcommunities would be unofficial, but they still would be helpful to those not capable of English language use.
nevon wrote:The internetz is a worldwide community where the dominating language is English. Deal with it.
This is wishful thinking. I also wish everybody would be forced to use english, so that google would stop redirecting me on its shitty localized german web sites or assume I want shitty german language wikipedia pages because I live in Berlin.

However, reality is different. For whatever reasons. Mostly education systems fail and that's how it is. You can't force English. If LOVE is not available with a Russian community, Russian coders will either create an independant russian community or use a shitty game dev lib that *has* a russian community. LOVE's loss probably.

My only proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG_Maker
Available in Japanese, Chinese, Korean, English
RPGMaker was made for the asian market. Only because It was so loved by the English market, that a fan-made english patch was created, the language was officially adopted. (just to show that English is not the only language people surf and develop in)
lg.newImage("cat.png") -- made possible by lg = love.graphics
-- Don't force fullscreen (it frustrates those who want to try your game real quick) -- Develop for 1280x720 (so people can make HD videos)

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TechnoCat
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Re: Русификация

Post by TechnoCat » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:05 pm

I'm in for multilingual documentation. Still not in for multilingual community though.
However, documentation wouldn't be easy to do either. The problem with the documentation is that it is a constantly changing wiki. Not static pages you translate once and push out the door. And when it is always changing, the other languages might not change with it fast enough.

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kikito
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Re: Русификация

Post by kikito » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:04 pm

qubodup wrote:RPGMaker was made for the asian market. Only because It was so loved by the English market, that a fan-made english patch was created, the language was officially adopted. (just to show that English is not the only language people surf and develop in)
Sorry qudodup, but I think that actually proves my point - they did it wrong at the beginning and later they fixed it :)

More seriously now, I don't deny reality: I am well aware that people will develop in languages other from English. My point is that is the wrong way of doing things; English code's benefits exceed its drawbacks. I know that there are people out there that lift heavy weight using their kidneys exclusively - that's reality. But there's a better way of lifting weights, flexing your legs and keeping your back straight.

I also think that everyone should leave the imperial system and adopt the metric one. And everyone should drive on the same side of the street.
When I write def I mean function.

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Robin
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Re: Русификация

Post by Robin » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:09 pm

kikito wrote:More seriously now, I don't deny reality: I am well aware that people will develop in languages other from English. My point is that is the wrong way of doing things; English code's benefits exceed its drawbacks. I know that there are people out there that lift heavy weight using their kidneys exclusively - that's reality. But there's a better way of lifting weights, flexing your legs and keeping your back straight.

I also think that everyone should leave the imperial system and adopt the metric one. And everyone should drive on the same side of the street.
Wait, now I'm confused. Are you saying everyone in the world should drop their own language and only use English? :shock:
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kikito
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Re: Русификация

Post by kikito » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:20 pm

When they program, yes, that's exactly what I mean.
When I write def I mean function.

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