Gender and the LÖVE community (A Community-Culture Problem)

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Azhukar
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Re: A Community-Culture Problem With Gender

Post by Azhukar » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:07 pm

DaedalusYoung wrote:If men want to join a group of females, the women too will have to adapt
Incorrect. Individual adapts to the group, not the other way around.

Why would I want an entire group of people I want to join to adapt to my needs, that's just selfish.
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Re: A Community-Culture Problem With Gender

Post by kclanc » Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:15 pm

Azhukar wrote:
DaedalusYoung wrote:If men want to join a group of females, the women too will have to adapt
Incorrect. Individual adapts to the group, not the other way around.

Why would I want an entire group of people I want to join to adapt to my needs, that's just selfish.
DaedalusYoung wrote:we
As a side-note, do not associate me with you. I do not share your beliefs or delusions, neither do many others around here.
Actually, I'm pretty sure most people on this forum value inclusivity.

The real argument of significance is whether or not having innuendos in library names make this forum any less inclusive. vrld mentioned in the other thread that most of the libraries have fairly gender neutral names. I agree with him. However, I think that having the forums saturated with gender neutral innuendos could still have a harmful effect. One thing that keeps getting brought up is whether or not there is any evidence supporting Robin's argument. Can't his reddit post be considered an attempt to collect evidence? I guess the problem with that post is that it did not indicate how gender-neutral the library names are.

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Karai17
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Re: A Community-Culture Problem With Gender

Post by Karai17 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:41 pm

An attempt at collecting evidence is not the same as actually collecting evidence. If you want to determine if things like sexual innuendo affect the decisions of female programmers when choosing a tool (such as a game engine or an ide), then you need to survey real female programmers, and ask them various relevant questions. Until we see a compiled set of data on the topic, then continuing discussion is completely pointless.

Some relevant questions for anyone who may actually be interested enough in the topic to collect some data:
* When did you begin learning to program?
* Why did programming attract you?
* How do you choose the tools you use when starting a new project?
* What are the key requirements for any tool to have?
* What are some things that may deter you from selecting one tool over another?
* What are some things that may deter you from joining a community?
* Are you offended by, or put off by sexual innuendo?
* Would gender-neutral sexual innuendo within a tool or community deter you from using or joining a tool or community?
* Would gender-specific sexual innuendo within a tool or community deter you from using or joining a tool or community?
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Azhukar
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Re: A Community-Culture Problem With Gender

Post by Azhukar » Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:29 pm

kclanc wrote:Actually, I'm pretty sure most people on this forum value inclusivity.
I did not say I nor others do not value inclusiveness. What I did say is that an individual adapts to the group, not the other way around. I do not care for your gender or what you get off to. What I do care about is censorship, which seems is what you want.

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Re: A Community-Culture Problem With Gender

Post by 15jamie20 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:38 pm

Karai17 wrote:I kindly ask you to stop bringing this nonsense up and causing polarization and rifts in the community we currently have.
You may not agree with Robin that all the sexual innuendo is bad for the the community, or that a lack of women is bad for the community.

But I hope you can see that creating an environment where people are discouraged from even debating stuff like this is definitely a bad thing for the community.

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Karai17
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Re: A Community-Culture Problem With Gender

Post by Karai17 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:40 pm

The problem is this comes up over and over and no one actually has anything useful to say. There is no discussion here without data, just speculation and personal anecdotes. Bring some data to support your case, or shut the hell up.
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Xkeeper
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Re: A Community-Culture Problem With Gender

Post by Xkeeper » Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:42 pm

Karai17 wrote:... or shut the hell up.
Is there really a need for all the vitriol?

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Karai17
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Re: A Community-Culture Problem With Gender

Post by Karai17 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:57 pm

Yes. If people are going to make these topics and "debate" their subjective opinions about how the community should behave, then I think they should just stay silent. If they bring some evidence and data to the table and make an actual case about their idea, then I'm all for a proper debate.
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davisdude
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Re: A Community-Culture Problem With Gender

Post by davisdude » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:46 pm

I don't have any hard data to bring, and I will admit, I did not read the whole article (can't stand things like that, but agree with what Robin is saying), but do have this article about a coding event.

While only a few of the probably thousands of apps displayed there were sexist or belittling to females, that's still 100% more than ones aimed at men.
Give the article a read if you want. The first two paragraphs contains the most pertinent information if you're like me.

And seriously, what's with the name calling and obscenities? That really accomplishes nothing and only gets the member of the opposing party mad at you, which (just speculating here) is what you wanted to happen, in my opinion. If you actually wanted to have a serious talk (or chat, but then again, nothing is really serious on the internet), you could bring up some data of your own that suggests that sexuality has no influence on females in the coding world.
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Re: A Community-Culture Problem With Gender

Post by Sheepolution » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:53 pm

I feel like these kind of discussions are hurting a community more than helping it.

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