Gender survey thingy

General discussion about LÖVE, Lua, game development, puns, and unicorns.

Are you male or female (or other)?

Female
1
1%
Male
70
90%
Other
7
9%
 
Total votes: 78

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Azhukar
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Re: Gender survey thingy

Post by Azhukar » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:39 am

Robin wrote:Where do you draw the line, though? Because you can create a very hostile atmosphere for other people without being directly abusive. And such a "solution" would just end up enforcing and aggravating the status quo.
I realize we live in a time where even common sense can be considered a privilege by some, but I'm sure that people are able to tell the difference between creating a hostile atmosphere and prudes choosing to be offended over nothing of substance.

There will always be someone somewhere that takes offense to something, probably at this very post.

In other words, you can write dick, but don't be a dick about it.

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Re: Gender survey thingy

Post by ejmr » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:11 am

Azhukar wrote:
ejmr wrote:However great Python may be as a language or how useful the content of the presentation, it didn’t prevent some people from taking offense.
They did not take offense with the python language, they took offense with the individuals making the jokes.
This misses the point I was trying to make. Sheepolution said:
Sheepolution wrote:After a few weeks you start using libraries, and you learn about the joke of having vulgar library names.
My point was that vulgar jokes associated with anything Python related were comparable to vulgar jokes related to libraries.
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Re: Gender survey thingy

Post by Azhukar » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:27 am

ejmr wrote:My point was that vulgar jokes associated with anything Python related were comparable to vulgar jokes related to libraries.
They are both as related to programming as naming your rubber duck sculpture with a vulgar name is related to sculpting.

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Re: Gender survey thingy

Post by jjmafiae » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:35 am

Wow, people calm down.

It's like some of you don't wan't women in this community.

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Azhukar
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Re: Gender survey thingy

Post by Azhukar » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:42 am

jjmafiae wrote:Wow, people calm down.
Everyone seems calm.
jjmafiae wrote:It's like some of you don't wan't women in this community.
Nobody said that. Do you mean "Who's not with us is against us."?

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Re: Gender survey thingy

Post by ejmr » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:46 am

Azhukar wrote:They are both as related to programming as naming your rubber duck sculpture with a vulgar name is related to sculpting.
1. Sheeplution said, “Imagine you're a women (or try to), you're finding this awesome framework. After a few weeks you start using libraries, and you learn about the joke of having vulgar library names. Would that be a reason for you to quit using LÖVE? That doesn't make sense to me at all.”

2. I responded with a comparable scenario where women at a Python conference left due to vulgarity. I was comparing vulgarity associated with technology in general to vulgarity with library names and using that as a counter-example to Sheeplution’s statement that such a scenario did not “make sense at all.”

3. You say both scenarios described in points one and two above are unrelated to programming.

Am I breaking that down incorrectly? Because if not, then I don’t know what relevant point you’re trying to say.
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Re: Gender survey thingy

Post by Azhukar » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:50 am

ejmr wrote:You say both scenarios described in points one and two above are unrelated to programming.
Yes that's exactly what I mean.
ejmr wrote:I don’t know what relevant point you’re trying to say.
That programming, the languages and tools used are all unrelated to people being offended at vulgar jokes.

You do not stop using english language because someone recited a continuous stream of swear words at a conference.
Same as you do not stop using a programming language/tool/whatever because someone made a vulgar joke.

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Re: Gender survey thingy

Post by ejmr » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:05 am

Azhukar wrote:
ejmr wrote:I don’t know what relevant point you’re trying to say.
That programming, the languages and tools used are all unrelated to people being offended at vulgar jokes.
I agree in the sense that I believe programming is inherently inoffensive. The people who get offended by a dick joke in a library name or at a tech conference are, in my opinion, likely to be offended by similar jokes in contexts completely unrelated to programming. However, this thread began in the context of gender issues within a tech/programming community. So for that reason I don’t see any constructive value in dissociating the two.
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Re: Gender survey thingy

Post by Azhukar » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:11 am

ejmr wrote:However, this thread began in the context of gender issues within a tech/programming community. So for that reason I don’t see any constructive value in dissociating the two.
We can pretend the STEM fields exist in a vacuum.

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Re: Gender survey thingy

Post by ejmr » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:17 am

Azhukar wrote:We can pretend the STEM fields exist in a vacuum, or we can look at the bigger picture.
Of course they don’t exist in a vacuum. But STEM fields happens to be the context for all of this, e.g. things like this. I think it’s perfectly reasonable and possible to have a valuable conversation on the subject of gender issues within the field of technology, and I do not see a benefit for this thread to blow the scope wide open to “the bigger picture.”
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