Why faking 3D nowadays?

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zorg
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Re: Why faking 3D nowadays?

Post by zorg » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:41 pm

modiX wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:56 am
You are right, at the very end 3D is just rendered 2D. With proper math, everything is possible. I could imagine a project called Love3D that is a layer on top of Love2D that allows to program 3D games with Love2D similar to other engines like Urho3D. I think the lack of proper tools is just a question of third party software. I mean, we can already use TMX files for tiled 2D games, if I'm not mistaken. As long as Love2D is popular, there will be tools written for it, right?
https://love2d.org/wiki/Love3D
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Re: Why faking 3D nowadays?

Post by Madrayken » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:57 am

Why? Because every time someone tries something that isn't 'the normal/right way' to do things, there's a chance that they'll get something unique and interesting out of it.

As soon as you sit down with a 3D engine it starts subtly, dangerously forcing you to do things the way *it* wants things done. If you do things the way everyone else does, using exactly the same tools, the same shaders, the same 'standard' settings, the same controls, the same same same same same... you'll end up with something close to 'the same as everyone else'. This is death. This is pointless. This is why there are 200000000 identikit bore-fests on Steam, itch and game jolt made in Unity.

So, please use Love2D to fake 3D... or even 4D... or 5D. Use it to fake text displays from a 1970s terminal. Use it to create a vector-based engine like Battlezone. Use it to make a game from nothing but meta-balls. Use it to do things the way *you* want to, the way *your* imagination wants it to be used.

There isn't even a render-tree to coerce you into doing things tidily.

Why use 2D to fake 3D? Why climb Everest? Why go to the moon? Or rather, why the hell not? :-)

P.S. I may have had too much coffee.
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Re: Why faking 3D nowadays?

Post by steVeRoll » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:34 pm

@Madrayken I totally agree!
This is also one of the reasons I started using love2d instead of any other 3d engine like Unity - In Unity, everything is based on the engine's rules, like gameobjects, scenes, etc.. But love2d doesn't have any rules - It only helps you with getting input from the player and drawing to the screen - the rest is for you to imagine!

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Re: Why faking 3D nowadays?

Post by modiX » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:23 pm

zorg wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:41 pm
https://love2d.org/wiki/Love3D
:3
<3 but it's community based. I'd love some official extension from the dev team even more. But this is great, so far.

Madrayken wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:57 am
P.S. I may have had too much coffee.
You had not. Your post was so beautiful to read. I've seen your passion to use Love2D to make your imaginations true in every word you've used. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Why faking 3D nowadays?

Post by SPlice » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:40 am

SO whats this I hear about the new version of love having built in stuff for 3d?

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Re: Why faking 3D nowadays?

Post by 4aiman » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:01 pm

Sorry for necroposting, but this is relevant to some degree.

Do we even need to fake 3d or not?
0.11.x seem to promise (I base this statement upon the info @ love3d github page) far more extensive 3d support than love3d ever had, but what's the state of that suppor as of now?
Unfortunatelly, I saw nothing 3d-related in a changelog and the search engine here doesn't like params like "3d".

So, is it possible to create at least properly textured 3d planes?

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Re: Why faking 3D nowadays?

Post by Ostego160 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:52 pm

4aiman wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:01 pm
Do we even need to fake 3d or not?
...

So, is it possible to create at least properly textured 3d planes?
Hello!

For myself, I certainly don't need it but I started doing it for the learning experience as it presented some interesting challenges. :awesome:

As for the textured planes, I have a project where I actually have a textured mesh map with a z-axis that interacts with objects that also have a z-axis. It can be seen HERE. There is some illusion but the camera can actually be rotated as well but the feature is not shown; I do not believe I will enable up/down angling as it would affect the object sprite appearances.

To be sure, I am very much looking forward to playing with 0.11.x as well!

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Re: Why faking 3D nowadays?

Post by modiX » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:47 pm

4aiman wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:01 pm
So, is it possible to create at least properly textured 3d planes?
Everything is possible, see this: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=78943

I don't think love2d will ever support easy 3D out of the box, tho.
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Re: Why faking 3D nowadays?

Post by pgimeno » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:02 am

4aiman wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:01 pm
Unfortunatelly, I saw nothing 3d-related in a changelog and the search engine here doesn't like params like "3d".
I haven't looked into love3d yet but the last two commits seem relevant to your question:

https://github.com/excessive/love3d/com ... a0119dd14a
https://github.com/excessive/love3d/com ... d75ed89a71

It seems that most of love3d is directed at implementing depth buffers. There's a lot of depth-related stuff in https://love2d.org/wiki/0.11.0 .
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4aiman
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Re: Why faking 3D nowadays?

Post by 4aiman » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:32 pm

Thanks a lot for your answers!

I guess I should've been more specific, though.
Love3d and other projects I saw here (love2d forums & github) use shaders and/or ffi in order to achieve proper 3d representation. Heck, even raycasters tend to be hardware-dependent (can't find a single raycaster that have textured floor/ceiling AND works on Android).

My interest lies not in love3d (or any other specific lib for that matter) and certainly not in raycasting.
I'm just wondering if there some newly-introduced built-in features of love2d 0.11.x to make perspective textured planes in 3d.

TL;DR
Something like love.graphics.rectangle(x,y,z,width,heigth, length,...) is a distant dream, but is it possible to go 3d without ffi and shaders as of now? Note that I'm talking about a cross-platform solution.

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