Idea: Graphical IDE

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T-Bone
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Idea: Graphical IDE

Post by T-Bone » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:13 am

Thinking big is what has brought humanity this far, is it not?

While I haven't finished a single game in LÖVE yet, I can't help but to already think about developing a graphical IDE for LÖVE. I think Lua scripts for LÖVE are very well suited to be automatically generated by a program in comparison to other programming languages. Since LÖVE is open source and all that, I don't see any problems with including LÖVE runtimes either.

The result would be something like a multiplatform Game Maker, which is something I think the world really needs. I've already got some ideas of how the interface would be.

Basically, what I wonder is:
1. Is this a stupid idea? :nyu:
2. Has something similar been done before?

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Ryne
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Re: Idea: Graphical IDE

Post by Ryne » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:19 am

A Graphical IDE isn't a stupid idea, though I think it should be separate from the framework in the sense that it shouldn't be a default thing. I think a lot of the users here probably prefer to just program in whatever program's they are comfortable with.
@rynesaur

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T-Bone
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Re: Idea: Graphical IDE

Post by T-Bone » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:40 am

Ryne wrote:A Graphical IDE isn't a stupid idea, though I think it should be separate from the framework in the sense that it shouldn't be a default thing. I think a lot of the users here probably prefer to just program in whatever program's they are comfortable with.
Of course. What I intend to make is a truly noob friendly, very separate program that makes it easy for people with no programming experience to get a game running. It should by no means be a part of LÖVE itself.

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ivan
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Re: Idea: Graphical IDE

Post by ivan » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:27 am

T-Bone wrote:The result would be something like a multiplatform Game Maker, which is something I think the world really needs. I've already got some ideas of how the interface would be.
An editor (or a Graphical IDE as you call it) has its advantages and disadvantages.
In the case of Love2D this might not be very well suited because your editor or IDE would have to enforce some sort of framework (involving 'sprites', 'layers', 'movieclips' or whatever).
These sorts of IDEs put your game development onto rails as you would no longer have direct access to the low-level rendering API which Love offers (and is probably Love2D's strongest suit).
T-Bone wrote:2. Has something similar been done before?
By the way, there is a Lua game making IDE called NovaShell: http://www.rtsoft.com/novashell/

Personally, I made a Box2D editor a while ago which saves b2Worlds in XML format.
It just doesn't seem very pratical to try and expand such an editor to a general-purpose game making IDE.
I guess what I'm saying is that, 99% of the time it is more useful to just make an editor specifically for the game that you want to make.

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T-Bone
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Re: Idea: Graphical IDE

Post by T-Bone » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:03 am

ivan wrote:
T-Bone wrote:The result would be something like a multiplatform Game Maker, which is something I think the world really needs. I've already got some ideas of how the interface would be.
An editor (or a Graphical IDE as you call it) has its advantages and disadvantages.
In the case of Love2D this might not be very well suited because your editor or IDE would have to enforce some sort of framework (involving 'sprites', 'layers', 'movieclips' or whatever).
These sorts of IDEs put your game development onto rails as you would no longer have direct access to the low-level rendering API which Love offers (and is probably Love2D's strongest suit).
T-Bone wrote:2. Has something similar been done before?
By the way, there is a Lua game making IDE called NovaShell: http://www.rtsoft.com/novashell/

Personally, I made a Box2D editor a while ago which saves b2Worlds in XML format.
It just doesn't seem very pratical to try and expand such an editor to a general-purpose game making IDE.
I guess what I'm saying is that, 99% of the time it is more useful to just make an editor specifically for the game that you want to make.
Of course, this is something I've been thinking a lot about. I believe it to be possible to make a pretty general framework quite easily in LÖVE, that will run "well enough" for "most games". LÖVE performance is, to my experience, good enough for something that isn't perfectly optimized to still run fine on most computers, which is enough for somebody who just wants to create a game quickly. Nothing will ever beat programming yourself, but I think it's possible to make something that creates acceptable games for noobs. Think Game Maker. :neko:

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Robin
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Re: Idea: Graphical IDE

Post by Robin » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:11 am

Help us help you: attach a .love.

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Kadoba
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Re: Idea: Graphical IDE

Post by Kadoba » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:26 pm

I'm actually like 3 months in the process of making a GameMaker-like framework in love. Although it's not an IDE. I thought the GameMaker IDE was really intrusive actually.

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ishkabible
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Re: Idea: Graphical IDE

Post by ishkabible » Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:57 am

coding was invited, it offers unparalleled control needed to make software. would you try and pitch a color by numbers book to a professional artist? of course not, you would try and pitch more vibrant colors, better brushes, better mediums. programing is an art, an art that takes a little bit a talent and a lot of practice. every programing strives to write a masterpiece(well sometimes your just cranking out code or writing a snippet), if i have a program tell me how to code how can i possibly make a masterpiece?

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T-Bone
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Re: Idea: Graphical IDE

Post by T-Bone » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:40 am

ishkabible wrote:coding was invited, it offers unparalleled control needed to make software. would you try and pitch a color by numbers book to a professional artist? of course not, you would try and pitch more vibrant colors, better brushes, better mediums. programing is an art, an art that takes a little bit a talent and a lot of practice. every programing strives to write a masterpiece(well sometimes your just cranking out code or writing a snippet), if i have a program tell me how to code how can i possibly make a masterpiece?
You can't. But some beginner who doesn't know programming, and doesn't want to learn it either, should still be able to create some games. The technology is there to make games that might be worse than something you wrote yourself from scratch, but still be good enough to be playable. Game maker does this. I see no reason for there not to be more multiplatform alternatives.
Kadoba wrote:I'm actually like 3 months in the process of making a GameMaker-like framework in love. Although it's not an IDE. I thought the GameMaker IDE was really intrusive actually.
Oh, nice. Do you have something to show? How far have you come?

They all seem to be for Windows... :/ Not that I personally need an IDE, gedit works great for lua, but still.

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Kadoba
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Re: Idea: Graphical IDE

Post by Kadoba » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:37 am

T-Bone wrote: Oh, nice. Do you have something to show? How far have you come?
Most of the core functionality is finished. It's not really in a presentable state though and some things really need to be polished or redone.

ishkabible wrote:coding was invited, it offers unparalleled control needed to make software. would you try and pitch a color by numbers book to a professional artist? of course not, you would try and pitch more vibrant colors, better brushes, better mediums. programing is an art, an art that takes a little bit a talent and a lot of practice. every programing strives to write a masterpiece(well sometimes your just cranking out code or writing a snippet), if i have a program tell me how to code how can i possibly make a masterpiece?
I think this is a little melodramatic. An IDE is just a tool. An optional one at that. Beginners could find it really useful and when they get more proficient they can switch to raw code if they want.

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