[WIP] XHH Studio - coming soon to Windows/Linux/Mac!

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XHH
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[WIP] XHH Studio - coming soon to Windows/Linux/Mac!

Post by XHH » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:33 pm

Hi everyone. This thread is about two things: who I am and who this thread is.

I didn't see an introduce yourself thread or anything, so I thought I would just post this here. I'm known as XHH. I created a game some time ago called Boredom. I used Game Maker 8 (mostly GML scripts, none of that D&D) to make it. I think Mari0 led me to Love2D. I've always wanted to make a game without using a game making program, and Love2D looks like a fantastic library to start with. I actually started working on a small game in Love2D (so FUN), but then I stopped, which brings me to paragraph two.

I've decided to start working on a program that can help me quickly put together Love2D games, but still have a lot of fun and freedom when coding. I've seen map-making programs and collision libraries, but I really need a solid package that helps me put it all together. I figured I should at least let the Love2D community know about this project and find out what others think.

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XHH Studio (the name I'm thinking of so far)

What you do:
-Start a new project
-Add objects to the project
-Set the object's images in the Animation Editor
-Edit the object's logic
-Set pretty things like the game's icon, developer info, and etc.
-Press the Run/Export button.

You design the game, and the program will put it all together and package it into a cute little executable. This is not going to be some text editor with syntax highlighting. It is going to be a fully functioning thingy that actually helps you put everything together.
---------

So what do you think about this? Excited?
Please reply with any suggestions, comments, or questions!


P.S. Here's a small preview of a button in the program: Image
Last edited by XHH on Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:39 pm, edited 5 times in total.
I like to draw and program :)

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raidho36
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Re: XHH Studio - make some love [games]

Post by raidho36 » Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:05 pm

Nah. Also, it's called an IDE.

I use GameMaker, and I run some obscure gamemaker community in russia, I perfectly realize that having such thing is a baby duckling syndrome. I don't need any of that to make my games all right. When I want edit graphics, I use GIMP. When I want edit sounds, I use Audacity. When I want edit tunes, I use MilkyTracker. When I want edit code, I use Notepad++ (I actually perfer gedit, but it's ridiculously slow and takes forever to start under Windows). And when I need to batch my shit up I use batch files. Oh and I don't use any common editor to edit my levels, since I couldn't find any that would satisfy my games' demands. I just quickly make my own specific editor.

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Re: XHH Studio - make some love [games]

Post by NightKawata » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:15 pm

That sounds like Game Maker, but for Love.
That doesn't sound all that great.

I do like your avatar, though.
"I view Python for game usage about the same as going fishing with a stick of dynamite. It will do the job but it's big, noisy, you'll probably get soaking wet and you've still got to get the damn fish out of the water." -taylor

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XHH
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Re: XHH Studio - make some love [games]

Post by XHH » Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:09 am

:ehem:

Well now this is feeling like more of a personal programming challenge for myself. When it's completely working I'm gonna use it to make my games though. This will be like Game Maker but only scripts and more for programmers and less for script kiddies. I'm going to post a link to the IDE anyways.

I guess I forgot to mention that this program will be well documented in a way to help total newbies get into game programming the RIGHT way.
I don't need any of that to make my games all right.
Good for you... :|
I like to draw and program :)

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raidho36
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Re: XHH Studio - make some love [games]

Post by raidho36 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:01 am

That would be the WRONG way. The right way is the way I do it. And oh yeah most people do it that way, so I'm not marginal here.

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Re: XHH Studio - make some love [games]

Post by Davidobot » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:15 am

XHH wrote::ehem:

Well now this is feeling like more of a personal programming challenge for myself. When it's completely working I'm gonna use it to make my games though. This will be like Game Maker but only scripts and more for programmers and less for script kiddies. I'm going to post a link to the IDE anyways.

I guess I forgot to mention that this program will be well documented in a way to help total newbies get into game programming the RIGHT way.
I don't need any of that to make my games all right.
Good for you... :|
Your o/p sounds exactly like gamemaker as I remember it, but that makes programming too easy. Quicker? Maybe. Easier? Too easy. I don't want to go back to the dark days before I found löve around the corner.
My projects: Raycaster, love.js v11.3 port
itch page: link
My website: link
My library: LovelyMoon

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Re: XHH Studio - make some love [games]

Post by slime » Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:22 am

Gamemaker is not for everyone (just as LÖVE isn't for everyone), but it's a great tool to have available. It'd be neat to have something which brings some of Gamemaker's strengths to LÖVE. :)

What language/libraries you be using to make it? Will it be cross-platform?

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Re: XHH Studio - make some love [games]

Post by scutheotaku » Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:39 am

[semi-off topic rant, start!]

In my humble opinion, you guys are being way too harsh to the O/P. There's no reason to be so dismissive.

What he is proposing doesn't really sound too much like Game Maker. Sure, it has some similarities, but those similarities are ones shared by nearly every IDE + engine package. The "Animation Editor" is the only thing out of the ordinary (though not THAT out of the ordinary) - and, XHH, that's something I would pass on, as it's unnecessary since there is plenty of excellent animation software out there (both free and commercial).

All he's saying is a project manager with class/object management, a level editor, and a publishing tool. This is exactly the same as things like Polycode, the old Torque 2D (back before it went open source and the scrapped half of it), Dreemchest, Unity, UDK, and the like come with - all of which (with the exception of Dreemchest, perhaps) are much more complicated than LOVE (for better or for worse), and much, much more complicated than Game Maker.

Also, as far as something like Game Maker being the "wrong way" or "too easy"...I completely disagree. Game Maker is a tool that is very good at what it does, and is fully capable of making great games (as has been shown time and time again). It has positives and it has negatives, just like LOVE, or Unity, or XNA, or building an engine from scratch, etc... It is not the "wrong way," it is A way. It is not "too easy," it's different. Yes, it does more for you, but in the world of game development that's a GOOD THING, assuming that it doesn't get in the way of what you want to do. There's a reason nearly every professional team licenses game engines and middle-ware - they don't want to have to do all the work, they want as much ease as they can get while still keeping the flexibility that they need. And, quite frankly, Game Maker (for example) has seen far more success as far as quality of games than LOVE ( I don't mean this in a bad way towards LOVE, AT ALL). Just look at games like Hotline Miami, Desktop Dungeons, Spelunky, Oil Blue, Cinders, Frozzd, and even games like Super Crate Box, Dustforce, Death Worm, Reflexions, Ninjammin, etc... These games may have been made the "wrong way," but they are fun games that a lot of people love, and, in many cases, they are making their creators money and even won awards - they are successful.

At the end of the day, we are here to make games. Everybody has their own thing/style, everybody has their own reasons, etc... All this silliness about Game Maker or IDEs making things too easy is...well, silly. And, besides, not everyone here is even interested in being a game programmer. Many just want to make games, and see programming as a means to an end, as a tool to get them where they want to go. If they can get where they want to go with less programming, then more power to them.

[end semi-off topic rant]

XHH:
If creating this idea is something you really want to do, then go for it. I'm sure that a lot of people would love a lightweight IDE/engine combo like this where they can dig deep into the code, but have a nice interface to make things a little easier. I think that a lot of beginners probably have issues with getting a good workflow going with something like LOVE, so at the very least your idea would really help them.

That being said:
1. I would suggest that you make yourself EXTREMELY familiar with LOVE and Lua before starting. You should know both like the back of you hand. Otherwise, you'll probably end up making bad design decisions that you'll regret later.
2. If you are mainly creating this to facilitate your own creation of games, then I would suggest that you start out by learning LOVE and making a complete game (even a simple one) or two with just LOVE and some external tools and libraries.
3. If you want to move into the "pro game designer" world, then I do suggest that you do learn how to do things at a lower level. But, in that case, I definitely wouldn't suggest that you use something like LOVE for that, as it is very high level. The traditional route here would be learning C++, and then DirectX and OpenGL, and then going on from there.

Oh, and as far as if others would use your IDE: if you made a good, lightweight piece of software, then I'm sure that people would use it. I personally would probably not use it, unless it was excellent. Why? I tend to make games/prototypes in one of two mindsets: 1. I want a nice clean set of tools that lets me do just about anything without setting any rules or styles in stone (which is when I use LOVE, at least for 2D, or something even simpler like Haxe + NME), or 2. I want more of a complete game engine that has a lot of game-centric stuff setup (which is when I'd use things like FlashPunk/HaxePunk, Polycode, and more recently WaveEngine). So, basically, this type of software is probably not something I'd use, unless it was for a massive project and I needed really solid project (source + asset) management (though Polycode would probably fill that gap for me). Most LOVErs probably wouldn't use it either, as I think that many of the people here are using LOVE because they don't like IDEs like what you're proposing (which is probably why you received the response you did).

If you are more interested in a more complete "turnkey" package, then perhaps you should look into things like Unity or even Torque 2D (which will apparently be getting editors again relatively soon). If you don't mind being on the cutting edge, then I highly recommend that you also check out Polycode, which will end up being pretty much exactly what you want...but, it's still in development, so don't expect everything to work 100%. At this point though, it has a built-in level editor (which kind of feels like a cross between Game Maker's Room Editor and Tiled), an animation editor, project management, and a script editor, along with a full framework that can be access either with Lua or C++. There have already been a few great games made with it, so definitely something that you might want to watch.

tl;dr? I suggest that you ,ake your idea for yourself first, and don't worry about others just yet. But before even that, make sure you look around (like at some of the options I mentioned above) to make sure that what you need/want isn't already out there and available to you.

:exhales:

Hopefully that helps :)

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Re: XHH Studio - make some love [games]

Post by Davidobot » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:19 pm

You know what, I would be quite happy if you did this, since I got a friend that needs some löve.
My projects: Raycaster, love.js v11.3 port
itch page: link
My website: link
My library: LovelyMoon

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XHH
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Re: XHH Studio - make some love [games]

Post by XHH » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:52 pm

slime wrote:What language/libraries you be using to make it? Will it be cross-platform?
Yes this will be cross-platform. It will at least be on Windows first, then Linux. I'm not sure if I will have to use a Mac in order compile an .app (or whatever Mac apps are called).
The GUI is made with Python/Pyglet/Tkinter. "Hmm, pyglet?", you might be thinking. Trust me, when you see the GUI you'll be like, "Oh cool! pyglet!" :awesome: . The way I've organized the code, I could easily turn it into FreePascal or C++ if I decided to for whatever reason. I know someone is going to say "ew pithon is slow!" but that's not true at all.
scutheotaku wrote: The "Animation Editor" is the only thing out of the ordinary (though not THAT out of the ordinary) - and, XHH, that's something I would pass on, as it's unnecessary since there is plenty of excellent animation software out there (both free and commercial).

All he's saying is a project manager with class/object management, a level editor, and a publishing tool.
It's not exactly an animation EDITOR. You upload images and it puts em' together so you can use variables like image_speed and image_index. I'm hoping the way I've layed stuff out in the GUI will be the selling point. This really will just be a tool to speed up some of the more time-consuming parts of game making so I can focus more on the gameplay itself.

I wont be creating a new scripting language like GML. Editing code will be in Lua and you can use Love2D functions the way they are. I'm also going to make a help file that will be targeting people that are new to game making and game making concepts.
I like to draw and program :)

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