My projects and demos

Show off your games, demos and other (playable) creations.
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Pangit
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Re: My projects and demos

Post by Pangit » Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:08 am

Today's update:

Tried to get the Navi library working with the program, everything seems to work just fine but the issue is that the pixel font is tiny. And there appears to be no way to scale it. So not sure how useful this library is going to be. Is there an alternative or will I need to write my own library?

Tonight's update:

After some pointers about pixel fonts. Seem to have that working...
pixelfont.png
pixelfont.png (6.94 KiB) Viewed 1763 times

Code: Select all

font = love.graphics.newImageFont("/assets/ImageFont.png",
    " abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz" ..
    "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ0" ..
    "123456789.,!?-+/():;%&`'*#=[]\"")

font2 = love.graphics.newImageFont("/assets/ImageFont2.png",
    " abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz" ..
    "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ0" ..
    "123456789.,!?-+/():;%&`'*#=[]\"")

font3 = love.graphics.newImageFont("/assets/ImageFont3.png",
    " abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz" ..
    "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ0" ..
    "123456789.,!?-+/():;%&`'*#=[]\"")
    
-- font = the font object you made before


function love.draw()
	love.graphics.setFont(font)

	love.graphics.print("There is always some madness in love.\nBut there is also always some reason in madness.\n\nFriedrich Nietzsche.", 100, 100)

	love.graphics.setFont(font2)
	
	love.graphics.print("There is always some madness in love.\nBut there is also always some reason in madness.\n\nFriedrich Nietzsche.", 100, 200)

	love.graphics.setFont(font3)
	
	love.graphics.print("There is always some madness in love.\nBut there is also always some reason in madness.\n\nFriedrich Nietzsche.", 100, 400)
	
end
Now to go on a search for monofonts.

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Pangit
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Re: My projects and demos

Post by Pangit » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:48 pm

Today's update:

Figured its important to nail the pixel fonts I am going to use in the project (and future projects now and get it over with.) So the plan for today is to end up with a bunch of font pngs I can use of different sizes, bold, italic, font families.

Here is one of the bizarre user interface fails. Gimp must have got the same development team as the Gnome people as they have managed to make an already crippled UI even worse. The font tool now does not show you a drop down of the installed fonts until you type the first letter of that font.. otherwise its just a blank. I didn't think they could make this crippled poor man's photoshop any worse than it was already to use but this just defies logic. How could people be so retarded?

Seems impossible to make resources for fonts in gimp this way, so now looking out for a linux graphics editor that can do this. aesprite can't.. inkscape is a vector package so I am sorta drawing a blank at this point.

:cool: Well I am frankly amazed this worked. But I managed to figure out a way to get inkscape to bend to my will yet again and generate the pixel font!

Have to say this was the most surprised I have been that this test worked out first time! haha.
pixelfont2.png
pixelfont2.png (13.78 KiB) Viewed 1740 times
will need to re-read the wiki as I am fairly sure you can affect the font spacing, but if not I'll just go back and tweak the pixel font file to give it a bit more space. Once that is down its time to do the whole character set (at the moment as you probably guessed its just a space and upper case characters.)

I was trying to figure out how to do an alien language but this totally solves that problem. I can create a custom alphabet and characters and use the same technique then be able to use it wherever I want in game. Can also create some nice Japanese and Korean graphics.... hmmm perhaps a top down tilemap design might work after all..

Anyway figured y'all might want to check out the pixel font file I used for the test.
ImageFont4.png
ImageFont4.png (15.17 KiB) Viewed 1739 times
Here is a weird error I have been getting...
pixelfont3.png
pixelfont3.png (36.07 KiB) Viewed 1731 times
So what is causing the pixel font to render like that?

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pgimeno
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Re: My projects and demos

Post by pgimeno » Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:05 pm

There are alternative graphics programs. Krita is similar to GIMP in that it's more of a photo editor than a pixel editor. But there are a number of pixel editors: grafx2, mtpaint, xpaint, pinta, KolourPaint, rgbpaint...

I share your aversion to Gnome, by the way :)

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Re: My projects and demos

Post by Pangit » Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:34 pm

Thanks for the tips on the editors will take a look tonight.

After looking at these and a few others I found on the internet I decided to survey/review the state of linux bitmapt/pixel editing software.

At the moment I have BMfonts working with wine, but I have not spent enough time with it yet to see if its possible to set it up to work with love2d. Something to work on when I get back, but on the plus side it automatically generates bitmap sheets of true type fonts. So at a push I could just edit that in another application.

http://www.angelcode.com/products/bmfont/

Always think its good to try and let a platform stand on its own and use its own tools though so I assumed that there must be a native application for linux that does this..

Our target is to find an application that replicates the windows pixel font generators that automatically create a pixel font asset from a font file.

Unfortunately there seems to be nothing available to do this so were stuck with manually generating the pixel font asset ourselves. Better learn to love those pixel boxes. And rolling to dice to see if the application anti-alias the font by default or if its possible to switch off.

But its open source right, all these genius programmers and community of people this should be a simple thing...

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate

(All hope abandon, Ye who enter here..)

RGBpaint

Appears not to exist in arch repos. looks like a dead project.

Pinta:

Named after a disease, features added on it seems in a desperate me-too attempt to stay relevant with the other sub par graphics editors that almost work how there supposed to. Or like a similar windows product did close to 15-20 years ago. Essentially its stable parts are like applications on the Amiga with a bunch of features that were bolted on later with little testing as they seem to have more glitches than a dubstep track.

Could be good if the development team focused on refining the tools, UI and targeting competent Windows products from a decade ago.

As it stands it would be painful to try and develop pixel font assets on this - and its a shame because it has everything that is needed but weird UI choices or just broken tools handicap your ability to be productive.

With all this said. As a general basic editor its OK. Seems to be a editor where the dev team were in a race to just throw in as many features as possible to compete with other projects. But that said installing with Yarout was easy enough.

Xpaint:

Build error under arch linux. Looks like another project similar to pinta though. But in fairness I couldn't build it so its not good to judge it. This was though after yarout spent the better part of 10 mins yanking my chain with endless requests for passwords ect..

Kolorpaint:

Like Xpaint, this also seems to be a broken package within AUR. Shame. Seems to be on a similar level to Pinta & Xpaint. Hopefully they will fix the install then it might be fixed but according to yarout this is an orphaned package. Interesting as there might be a way to get this working according to some matrix like messages coming from yarout lol :cool: with some repeated attempts I managed to get Kolorpaint to install. Out of all of the applications I tested so far this is the closest to a competently designed tool. However after spending a bunch of time creating the pixel asset I found that Kolorpaint had assumed I wanted a white background. There appears to be no layer tool in this application so I managed to waste half an hour learning this gotcha. I thought "ah ok I can just remove the white background..." Nope... well you can it will just look terrible and the tools do a half assed job.

Again - feature wise an ability to have layers. transparency not as some obscure option to select would be nice to have as default.

Still in a land of blind men the one eyed man is king. Out of all of the tools tested so far this is the closest thing to being able to do the job.

Will struggle on and see if there is a way to use transparency as default.. if it looks any better. So there is a chance this application might actually do what it says it will.

One UI gripe. Undo is a two click process...

Kolorpaint seems to antialias by default and it appears to be no way to switch this off.
ImageFont8.png
ImageFont8.png (12.92 KiB) Viewed 1683 times
Here you can see what I mean, while i can line up the yellow boxes just fine, the text is a bit of a mess. Your also note there is no real way I can easily change the colour of the text to white now.

But for all the moaning, this is the best so far. But still crippled compare to applications that were available for windows 8 years ago.

I can't believe they would not have a layers tool in this application, It says it supports layers in some write-ups but I can't see any evidence of that in the application itself. Who would design a graphics editor without layers? Is this some sort of joke? What person write a program without layers in 2016? To those reading this thinking "Ah he is salty, it can't be that hard.." Try and edit white text on a transparent background and see how you do. Now come back to me and say its not important.

This lack of layers totally cripples the product. As I said earlier it boggles the mind that they could create a program and forget such a basic thing.

Hmm time to move on..

65mb of fail right there.


mtpaint

This program takes the prize for unusable program of the group. While it did install somehow I wished it didn't.

Has layers, but appears to have been designed by a person for whom usability and functionality were an anathema. This program ican't seem to export a png with text. despite having layers (in a seemingly broken way though.) They couldn't have made this program harder to use if they tried. At what point in the project did someone say "We might want to work on making this a functioning product... or usefull.."

The mind boggles.

So were kind of getting to a mid way point, still have not found a single application that can do the job effectively compared to a window application that was developed by a guy on his own 8 years ago and no longer maintained? I tend to question the logic behind open-source at moments like this? With all these great minds coming together to create what is essentially a pile of useless broken junk.

grafx2

Looks like an Amiga program, but in fairness this walks all over mtpaint in terms of usability, and features that work. If you are used to using Amiga or Atari ST type applications the interface will feel very familiar. I wouldn''t let it put you off. Give it a go and run through the tutorial. It's like a more mature version of kolourpaint. I thought it was one of the best out of the bunch. A very nice little program that focused on a limited set of features and made sure they worked.

Would strongly recommend this application if you cant find an automatic way to generate pixel fonts.
Image
Image
For people that have used Brilliance or Deluxe paint your see this was a sort of spiritual successor to these programs.

Now go check out grafx2 and your see what I mean. It's like a fusion of some of the best features of both programs. (considering the music tool for the project is milkytracker its somewhat poetic that the graphics tool was this.. I am starting to see an emergent theme to the tools used in this project lol.)

Krita

Out of all the reviewed programs, Krita is probably the closest to GIMP - I would say its more functional and has a more sane UI. But the downside is this is in no way a light package to install. Of-course it depends if you already have the dependencies already installed on your distro but lets assume you got nothing - you could end up installing hundreds of megabytes of package data. It's also quite taxing on older machine. like I have 4 gigs of ram but integrated intel graphics and an old laptop and its pretty slow.

But on the plus side, if you are used to applications like Painter your will notice lots of similarities, its got some good tools for doing things like concept art. Especially if you have a graphics tablet then I can really see this program coming into its own. I would say its superior to GIMP. Especially if you are not so much photo editing but into digital content creation, especially digital painting this is a great program.

So yea for concept art, and doing things like digital paintings this program is hard to beat on Linux. Assuming your machine can handle it its seems like a no brainier in the tool box. But if your PC is not so hot it might be worth just sticking with something lightweight yet powerful like grafx2 (the Admiral Graf Spee of graphics editors).

To wrap this up - I should add that aseprite while it lacks font tools and thus it really was pointless to include in this review - I use a lot for creating tilemap assets. If you need something simple and focused that gets the job done with a clean interface. This is a great tool. I like the way you have total control over what you create with it. But its a very specialized tool. If you need to make icons, tiles or sprites its a good tool to have. Highly recommend this.

Also of note is the surprisingly competent Inkscape, if you need vector assets this is a good choice for the linux toolbox. Ok its never going to be Adobe Illustrator but once you learn to get around the annoying parts or have to do things the hard way compared to Illustrator you can achieve quite a lot with this program. Once you get used to it its not so bad. It's still under development so some of the features don't work quite as you would expect but its not broken. I use it a lot to demo ideas and do things like the UIs you see in the projects.

It can also run in headless mode so you can write batch processes, tools for generating assets. The file saves are in XML so its possible to write some cool tools to work with these to help with your projects. I would say if you have time look into it.

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4aiman
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Re: My projects and demos

Post by 4aiman » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:12 pm

Man, just make your own *.ttf font. That's easy! :)
Also, GIMP may be an overkill, but it's good for everything: from pixelart to applying filters and altering tileset in a minute.

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Pangit
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Re: My projects and demos

Post by Pangit » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:21 pm

You get weird scaling problems with ttf fonts. Like what happens when your scaler function returns a value for the font size that is not a whole value? you get unpredictable results. Or you can max/min but then you have unpredictable outcomes depending on a potential user interaction with the program. I want to ensure as much as possible I can control the program and limit unpredictable results to reduce error and sup-optimal display. I wanted better control of the display - that is why I use pixel fonts. I want to know exactly how a screen will look at a given resolution. I can't be totally sure when just using fonts. Especially when using things like camera or effects.

My problem with gimp is that you have features that are not implemented correctly, but mostly it is it tends to over-promise features while under-delivering stability and usability. The whole reason I had to look for alternatives was because whomever who is in-charge of UI for GIMP decided that we should no longer have a dropdown box to display font information, but instead I should use it like its some sort of android app by having to type the first letter of the font name before anything displays. Lol. Who ever thought this was good UI? That is just plain crazy way to break a user assumption.

I just find GIMP very hard to use, bloatwear. But it can't even touch Photoshop despite all the hype and fanboy worship. Does anyone really see GIMP as a credible alternative to photoshop?

If there is such a thing as a "tool chain philosophy" for the project its to get applications that are as specific as possible, ideally they perform one task very well. I would rather have a specialist tool than something that can do a number of tasks in a half assed way. If its all free and supposedly open source was meant to be some panicia of intellectual & technical master-works it would seem to me better to go for targeted specific tools over general ones.

But what I found was with open source projects unless is reverse engineering a commercial tool from the past it usually has issues with design either technical or user interface.

Still each persons approach is difference and we all have different views lol. If you like gimp and ttf more power to you. If you can find a way to accurately predict the font behaviour with scaling window then it would be great to see. It's nice to see clever ways to overcome problems.

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Pangit
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Re: My projects and demos

Post by Pangit » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:58 am

Plan for today is learn the grafx2 program and see just how closely it is to deluxe paint.

So far, its much much faster to get screens done in grafx2. Much easier :awesome: to prototype the various parts of the program. Will have some early examples ready by tonight I think. Very positive.

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4aiman
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Re: My projects and demos

Post by 4aiman » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:40 am

1. TTF fonts.
TL;DR:
If you have some weird font, then it can be drawn in a weird way and give you some problems.
By making his/her own font one can ensure that there's no problems with that.

The long story:
There's no way to get a crisp font when your scale factor is fractional. Either ttf or sprite-based.
If you *do* use a filter, the font gets blurry. If you *don't*, it *will* have artifacts.
After all any type of a font ends up being drawn as group of pixels.

Now, ttf is a "vectorish" thing and thus can be scaled to any size w/o any visible artifacts as long as your resolution lets you.
On the other hand, sprite-based fonts can't be scaled that easily. I mean, yeah, those *can* be made to look smaller, but scaling 'em up *will* uncover the pixel nature underneath.

Here are some examples:
TTF Pixel font scaled up by 4.3 and then the whole image scaled up by 3.2:
Image
Same scale, but now with 2 shaders affecting the final image (4.3, then 3.2, then scanlines, then barrel distortion):
Image
Same font, scale 5.5 then 0.7:
Image
Now, the same 4.3 scale + maximized window (almost FullHD) + barrel shader:
Image
Everywhere a pixel ttf font looks just right (blurriness tends to not exist) even with the linear filter on.

The size of a minimal rect that contains some string drawn on-screen scales to fit exactly what it should be scaled to.
Any resolution shows the very same layout of text.
Any resolution starting with 320x240 gives you readable text messages. It is possible to push the limit further into, say 128x128!

My point: if some TTF font gives you troubles, then either that font has some internal problems (self-crossing, not "mono" when it claims to be so, etc.) or you're doing something in a wrong way. So, either change the font or ask someone to show you the way to scale fonts the right way :)

Basically, you do *not* want to scale a no font. Neither TTF one nor a sprite-based.
You should draw the entire screen in just *one* resolution and then scale that to a desired resolution.
"Up" or "down" doesn't matter, since any font will blend naturally with the rest of drawable objects.





2. GIMP
It seems to me that you just don't have much experience with GIMP.

TL;DR:
Any artist and/or a techy person should cease to think in patterns. Patterns kill creativity.
My point? GIMP's UI designer may have done horrible things (clearly, that's not my point of view), but someone who don't expect a combobox to look like a combobox will find it easily.

The long story
I'm not a dev of the GIMP. Nor am I a professional user of GIMP.
But right now it seems that the only problem you've experienced was the lack of determination.

There *is* a combobox (drop-down list) for fonts. It just doesn't look like one - that's all.
combobox.png
combobox.png (52.14 KiB) Viewed 1602 times
My point was not to stir you into using GIMP (or any other image editor, for that matter) but to convey something like "Hey, if you don't know how to use a piece of software, then please, don't do a disservice to those who might be eager to learn how to use that piece of software and might want to try it.".

On the other hand, if your experience lets you notice some horrible code in GIMP, the, let me cite it: "assed ways" of implementing something (including the UI), then I beg of you to reach GIMP's devs and help them to abandon the "assed ways".

Now, if only every dissatisfied person would have helped the cause implementation of which he/she is dissatisfied with!
That would be awesome!


Your friendly neighborhood 4aiman. ^___________^

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pgimeno
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Re: My projects and demos

Post by pgimeno » Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:48 am

4aiman wrote:On the other hand, if your experience lets you notice some horrible code in GIMP, the, let me cite it: "assed ways" of implementing something (including the UI), then I beg of you to reach GIMP's devs and help them to abandon the "assed ways".
Been there, done that. They won't change it, even if the complaints about the export misfeature have rained on them.

BTW, I am one of GIMP's devs (just quite inactive since 2.6, mainly due to frustration with the project leaders).

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4aiman
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Re: My projects and demos

Post by 4aiman » Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:58 am

This frustrates me a lot.
You're a dev of GIMP and can't make your own build of GIMP? O_o
It is understandable if you don't want to work with the rest of the team, but no one forces you to share neither your build nor your sources.

Anyway, complaints won't change anything. One either do or don't.
And it's a real shame when one can and still don't.
After all, you're the one to be affected first :)

BTW, I really like the export feature :)

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