[00:00] humidity and metals are not the best friends... [00:02] junkyard i worked at still just has a portapotty [00:02] one garage i worked at literally just had a pot to piss in [00:03] stinky pot that was [00:17] moos (~moos@REDACTED) joined #love [00:25] moos (~moos@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [00:39] Fran (~Fran@REDACTED) joined #love [01:06] Fran (~Fran@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [01:06] Fran (~Fran@REDACTED) joined #love [01:34] z0rg (~zorg@REDACTED) joined #love [01:36] i looooove thunderstorms [01:51] yeah power outage is so much fun [01:51] even if your PSU provides power, it does diddly squat to help because the internet is down anyway [01:52] implying i havent procrastinated on buying a psu [01:52] also one of my screens finally fried itself [01:52] i don't own one either [01:53] so every time the god damn natural gas power plant THE BIGGEST IN THE REGION BY THE WAY drops the power I have to open up all of my apps all over again [01:53] and because my monitor runs over VGA and i can't be assed to write proper configs, I have to create new xrandr resolution profile every boot [01:54] i mean come the hell on, the power plant produces almost 10 gigawatts of power but it couldn't for its life run without outages or small drops every few weeks? [01:55] and because the station is so huge there are no smaller stations anywhere in vicinity that could have backed up for it [01:56] oh and of course it also powers local mega factory [01:56] so when there's a power drop half the factory stalls for a solid hour [02:02] setz_ (~setz@REDACTED) joined #love [02:18] moos (~moos@REDACTED) joined #love [02:27] moos (~moos@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [02:53] joseph (~joseph@REDACTED) joined #love [03:17] Defaultti (defaultti@REDACTED) joined #love [03:20] moos (~moos@REDACTED) joined #love [03:20] Fran (~Fran@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [03:21] Fran (~Fran@REDACTED) joined #love [03:26] setz__ (~setz@REDACTED) joined #love [03:28] moos (~moos@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [03:34] setz_ (~setz@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [03:36] InariWB (~Pinkishu@REDACTED) joined #love [03:37] InariWB (~Pinkishu@REDACTED) left irc: [04:04] Vornicus (~Vorn@REDACTED) joined #love [04:10] https://blogs.unity3d.com/2017/07/10/deprecating-directx-9/ [04:25] Windows XP is still like 35% of global market share [04:25] mainly thanks to china [04:27] yea that immediately smells fishy, as if microsoft personally told them to drop dx9 support so that new unity games would only run on their newer OSes that failed to gain nearly as much popularity as XP did [04:28] not even free update makes people switch to w10 [04:29] i'm a holdout (w7) [04:30] windows hasn't been my primary os for years now [04:30] Defaultti (defaultti@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [04:32] Defaultti (defaultti@REDACTED) joined #love [04:32] i've been using linux since 2010 and before that the single reason for using windows was not knowing any better, and i only briefly was using windows 8 in 2012-2015 for the single reason of playing early VR games [04:32] once they drop support for win7 i might do something radical and stop writing software for windows, unless they produce an operating system that's worth buying [04:33] the only windows that was worth buying was 3, at the time all other graphical interfaces were painfully slow [04:34] ever since then, not one worthwhile OS came out from microsoft [04:34] well i think XP, and win7 were pretty decent releases, and not the crap that is vista, 8, and now 10 [04:34] unity hasn't worked on Xp for over a year [04:35] their loss [04:35] raidho: opengl 3 still works on xp [04:35] slime: vulkan can work on XP [04:35] and dx11 feature level 9 works on windows 7 [04:35] blame microsoft for intentional product crippling [04:35] i could have saved MS a lot of money and wasted effort if they had read my forum posts about convergence [04:36] crysis' story shows that windows 7 is fully capable of running dx11 [04:36] LordNed (~LordNed@REDACTED) joined #love [04:38] being a public company, it's bound to the will of its shareholders [04:38] historically this type of company control have proven to produce all sorts of absurd and nonsensical directions for the company [04:39] instead of doing something meaningful, the company concentrates all its efforts on catering to shareholders' every whim that they think will improve profits [04:41] and because shareholders own a fraction of the company, they cannot be simply told to fuck off on the grounds that their direction will run the company into the ground [04:41] cigumo (~cigumo@REDACTED) joined #love [04:42] their main mistake was falling into the trap of trying to make an operating system that looked and performed the same way across multiple types of devices. that thinking cost them the mobile market [04:42] pretty sure nobody entertained a thought that this can possibly work [04:42] in the company [04:43] it was a gimmick they attempted to bank on [04:43] who knows? there were some real true believers in the convergence concept. i still encounter them from time to time [04:43] turns out they vastly underestimated just how much people don't give a shit about bringing together mobile and pc which were already mature as totally separate ecosystems [04:44] exactly [04:45] too their surprise, people actually like an operating system that's engineered for the device they're using lol [04:45] moral of the story: you don't bank on gimmicks [04:45] more news at 11 [04:45] depends on what you call a gimmick [04:45] setz_ (~setz@REDACTED) joined #love [04:46] i use gimmick here in colloquial, normal sense [04:46] i suppose one persons gimmick is another person's core functionality [04:46] the tile layout is a gimmick [04:46] like nintendo for example [04:46] it has no special value of and in itself, and yet they tried to tout this as some amazing functionality [04:46] they like to put things in their consoles that could be considered gimmicks [04:48] wiimote for example? that was a gimmick, but a very successful one :) [04:49] wiimote isn't a gimmick [04:49] the power glove is a gimmick [04:49] and a shitty one at that [04:49] the light gun was a cool gimmick tho [04:49] oh man, we could debate this forever and we'd both be dead by the end of it [04:50] ...right... [04:50] why did I even bother [04:51] you can always go by the definition: a special, possibly unusual, feature that is meant to stand out and catch a lot of attention [04:51] anyway, i'm going to put my feet up, watch something, and call it a day. cheers! [04:52] setz__ (~setz@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [04:52] and banking your whole business on gimmicks is a shitty idea [04:53] gimmicks get old pretty fast and if they have no actual value then you're sure to go under [05:04] Welkin (~Welkin@REDACTED) joined #love [05:12] josephbrower (~josephnex@REDACTED) joined #love [05:21] moos (~moos@REDACTED) joined #love [05:29] moos (~moos@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [06:01] setz__ (~setz@REDACTED) joined #love [06:08] setz_ (~setz@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [06:31] morning [06:32] i wonder if not having key binding reassigning options, or locking the up/down axis of a thumbstick when motion controls are on would be shitty nintendo gimmicks [06:37] josephbrower (~josephnex@REDACTED) left irc: Quit: My computer is tired, it is going to sleep. [06:40] it wouldn't be gimmicks, it would be just shit programming [06:48] well, that's not better :p [06:51] Welkin (~Welkin@REDACTED) left irc: Quit: leaving [06:56] josephbrower (~josephnex@REDACTED) joined #love [07:44] Klowner_ (~mark@REDACTED) joined #love [08:01] josephbrower (~josephnex@REDACTED) left irc: Quit: My computer is tired, it is going to sleep. [08:34] josephbrower (~josephnex@REDACTED) joined #love [08:55] Murii (~murii@REDACTED) joined #love [09:00] re: earlier. windows XP is dead and not worth supporting, and DX9 needs to die [09:01] josephbrower (~josephnex@REDACTED) left irc: Quit: My computer is tired, it is going to sleep. [09:01] josephbrower (~josephnex@REDACTED) joined #love [09:01] as for the wii, the wiimote's biggest issue is just the lag [09:01] the wii was good [09:02] josephbrower (~josephnex@REDACTED) left irc: [09:07] YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@REDACTED) joined #love [09:18] sla_ro|master (~sla.ro@REDACTED) joined #love [09:29] bomb (~bomb@REDACTED) joined #love [09:30] setz_ (~setz@REDACTED) joined #love [09:36] ibispi (~quassel@REDACTED) joined #love [09:37] setz__ (~setz@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [09:57] hicoleri (~acae180c8@REDACTED) joined #love [10:05] Midiman (~Midiman@REDACTED) joined #love [10:29] Shviller (~Shviller@REDACTED) joined #love [10:39] sla_ro|master (~sla.ro@REDACTED) left irc: [10:51] acae180c8521c1f (~acae180c8@REDACTED) joined #love [10:51] hicoleri (~acae180c8@REDACTED) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [10:51] Murii (~murii@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [11:13] HammyHammerGuy (~HammerGuy@REDACTED) joined #love [11:16] LordNed (~LordNed@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [11:27] moos (~moos@REDACTED) joined #love [11:30] acae180c8521c1f (~acae180c8@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [11:35] moos (~moos@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [11:35] Serpent7776 (~Serpent77@REDACTED) joined #love [11:38] Inari (~Pinkishu@REDACTED) joined #love [12:19] does love also work well on ios? [12:28] it works, and afaik there's nothing worse about it [12:38] Horizonmind (~Horizonmi@REDACTED) joined #love [12:38] got a somewhat basic question [12:39] if I create a table a = {} [12:39] then b = {} and c = {} [12:39] then b[1] = a [12:39] and c[1] = a [12:42] if a is a local variable and after those statements the block ends, a would still exist, because there are references to it [12:43] but if I now want to delete that specific table completely, do I have to separately clear each reference to it? [12:44] or is there some function(a) that would result that after that b[1]==nil and c[1]==nil ? [12:47] or not necessarily nil but if I want to change the table to which b[1] and c[1] refer into another table or to a number or a string? [12:48] or, alternatively, is there a way to check what variables contain the reference to that table? [12:54] Typically you can't tell - you'd have to sweep the entire space to find the reference. [12:54] s. [12:55] There's things called weak references, which don't prevent cleanup. [12:55] oh? [12:55] that's probably exactly what I'm looking for [12:56] uh, no that's not the right link [12:57] https://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#2.10.2 [12:57] it also could be that there's a different way to accomplish what I'm doing as well, considering that I don't know half of what one can do with Lua [12:57] Hooray for bartbes [13:00] alright, I'll take a look - thanks! :) [13:03] in general, are there any good design principles regarding games that have multiple different objects all containing references to each other ? [13:04] I'm kinda trying to make my own systems for that, but I realize that I'm probably reinventing the wheel and in the meantime, creating a ton of crashes or bugs because references between objects become messed up [13:21] Murii (~murii@REDACTED) joined #love [13:21] \o [13:23] setz__ (~setz@REDACTED) joined #love [13:28] moos (~moos@REDACTED) joined #love [13:29] setz_ (~setz@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [13:36] moos (~moos@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [13:37] Murii (~murii@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [13:38] Shell32 (~Shell32@REDACTED) joined #love [13:44] Horizonmind (~Horizonmi@REDACTED) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [13:47] Fran (~Fran@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [13:48] Fran (~Fran@REDACTED) joined #love [13:58] Fran (~Fran@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [13:58] Fran (~Fran@REDACTED) joined #love [13:59] Horizonmind (~Horizonmi@REDACTED) joined #love [14:10] Horizonmind: I mean, if they have a reference presumably there's a reason for it [14:10] what's the problem? [14:10] lua's gc can deal with cycles, so that's nothing to be worried about [14:11] there is not any single problem [14:12] I actually thoughtIf you're doing, like, targeting, you'll probably want weakrefs for that [14:12] er, -"I actually thought" [14:13] depends, if your targets have a flag that says whether they're alive you can just use that, and you don't need a weak reference [14:13] rather that are there some useful design principles, frameworks or heuristics to be used when making a game with numerous references between objects so that it doesn't become messy [14:13] I think the biggest thing to look out for is unloading things in objects that live longer [14:13] so especially in gamestates you may want to make sure to set some members to nil [14:14] what does "unloading" mean in this context? [14:15] "Fixed a major contributer to late game memory bloat. Got a reproduction that was 1.6gb in memory on load, 600mb after fixes were applied. Turns out there was a bug that was preventing creatures from forgetting things they hated, and their memories had memories of things THEY hated, which was forcing everywhere something hated something else into memory at all times, which was quite a lot of places. So the bug was about 1 gb of pure [14:15] hatred." [14:15] Horizonmind: well, setting things to nil [14:15] ah [14:15] another thing is that my lists are probably a bit problematic as well [14:15] if you just don't want loads of references to begin with.. well, good luck [14:19] I may or may not have expanded my map by a kilometer and now my octree (or so it seems) isn't fast enough [14:20] lol [14:20] what's an octree? [14:21] octree: 3 dimensonal space partitioning based only on coordinates. You use them to reduce the amount of work you need to do to check for collisions. [14:21] a 3d quad tree [14:21] just wiki'd it [14:21] yeah, space partitioning. you divide cubes into 8's [14:21] cool stuff [14:23] long story short your world is built in a cube, which is subdivided into 8 cubes, each of which is also subdivided into 8 cubes, etc. You place each object as a reference in the smallest cube it is entirely contained within; then, when you check collisions, you need only check the series of cubes that your object is contained in [14:24] have a screenshot [14:24] https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/8C3uK63h/image.png [14:25] "dark magic" [14:25] I should go add grass [14:26] Vornicus: yeah, I need to make it update the octree automatically when you modify objects instead [14:27] I should really update to love 0.11 [14:32] or start using lua-bgfx [14:33] aliasd (~adee@REDACTED) joined #love [14:43] https://archive.org/details/librivoxaudio?and[]=radio [14:43] Whoops, wrong channel [14:57] Murii (~murii@REDACTED) joined #love [15:08] Fran (~Fran@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [15:09] Fran (~Fran@REDACTED) joined #love [15:17] apparently I just had to adjust my octree parameters a little bit and now no more lag [15:18] EntranceTwo (~EntranceJ@REDACTED) joined #love [15:18] slime: when's occlusion queries ;) [15:20] holo: what's that editor? godot? [15:20] bomb: no, it's mine [15:20] that's love [15:21] interesting [15:21] you're using imgui? [15:22] yes [15:22] lovely [15:22] imgui is awesome [15:22] you're coding it in c++ then [15:23] nope [15:23] it's haxe -> lua [15:23] I'm using love-imgui [15:23] whoa [15:24] so you're actually coding in haxe [15:24] yeah [15:24] I have a good amount of just lua in here though [15:25] how did you get into love? haxe already has a nice API and frameworks [15:25] I've been using love for years [15:27] I only started using haxe recently (after bartbes wrote love bindings) [15:27] it's nice, so I'm doing this game with it. [15:27] I'm using a lot of my lua libs still [15:28] i.e. love3d, cpml [15:29] moos (~moos@REDACTED) joined #love [15:29] if you could bring your libraries with yourself, like you go libgdx and tada! you found libgdx3d in your pocket, would you still stay with love? [15:32] probably [15:32] BearishMushroom (~BearishMu@REDACTED) joined #love [15:33] it's not the tool for every job. [15:34] but for the most part, it's a good option and I know what to expect of it [15:35] i'm asking, because i'm trying to decide between love, libgdx and godot [15:35] well, what are you going to make? [15:36] love is fantastic, but I do exactly what love isn't designed for :P [15:36] and it's still great, but I had to implement a lot myself and complain a lot for a few features. [15:37] hehe [15:37] moos (~moos@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [15:37] even despite those, I've got lua-bgfx [15:38] love is kind enough to let me disable the graphics stuff and use my own [15:38] ...but 0.11 added nearly everything I made that for [15:38] you could have added a löve libgdx module [15:38] *bgfdx [15:39] does lua-bgdx support direct3d and webgl? [15:39] I like all these spellings [15:39] why would you want d3d [15:39] bgfx supports those things, lua-bgfx has them disabled though [15:39] not because it needs to, just for my sanity [15:42] hmm [15:43] remember that the longer you support a bad system, the longer it will live and cause pain and misery [15:43] disclaimer: I don't recommend getting into things that are as hairy as doing your own renderer module ;) [15:48] so you imply love is missing features, but somehow it's more preferable than libgdx and godot [15:48] if you're making a 2d or mostly-2d game you won't run into any of the nonsense I do. [15:49] further, experience counts for a *lot* [15:49] also luajit is fantastic [15:53] the only thing löve is missing that libgdx has is full on 3d support [15:53] which it kinda supports anyway [15:54] nonexistence of static typing and classes doesn't bother you in lua? [15:54] no [15:54] does it bother you? [15:54] class-like behavour isnt hard to replicate in Lua [15:54] i should have noted that i'm new to game development :) [15:55] then why did you even raise this topic? of course go with love [15:55] I can get that stuff in haxe, also classes aren't that important to begin with. [15:55] oop is overrated [15:56] blame java [15:56] i actually dislike oop in other areas of programming. but it looked useful in gamed development, i don't know [15:56] there's always ECS [15:56] lua is one of those languages that doesn't makes you do things any particular way [15:57] a lot of the time it's actively harmful in game development, but you shouldn't really worry about that [15:57] such as using classes [15:57] i read about ECS. i dislike it :> [15:57] you should worry instead about just making something instead of getting hung up on the tools ;) [15:57] yeah [15:58] also check out https://github.com/lua-carbon/carbon [15:58] ecs is wonderful [15:58] fwiw [15:58] but then you have to write components [15:58] for everything [15:58] components aren't anything special [15:58] it's just data [15:58] you'll have data anyways [15:59] can't you just slap procedural instructions on game objects? [15:59] Horizonmind (~Horizonmi@REDACTED) left irc: [16:00] Action: Shviller is designing his own object model in his spare time... just like everybody else had at some point [16:00] you can have functions on your objects if you really want, but life's better if your objects are just plain data [16:00] especially when it's time to serialize/deserialize [16:03] EntranceToo (~EntranceJ@REDACTED) joined #love [16:09] EntranceTwo (~EntranceJ@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [16:16] deep topics [16:16] i just need something simple impress my mom and cat :) [16:17] Then just write dem games! [16:17] jacob_ (~jacob@REDACTED) joined #love [16:17] Shviller: using love? [16:18] Nick change: jacob_ -> Guest1283 [16:18] Using whatever. You can try Haxe, for example. >:) [16:18] it was pain to compile for android using openfl [16:18] Then use Love. :D [16:20] Also, if you're worried about static typing, kailua is an option. It's underdocumented ATM, but I think I've got it figured out. [16:20] Plus with my constant bug reports the author is close to finally writing proper docs. [16:23] Has anyone released a commercial project with love in the past few years and actually made a decent sum of money from it? [16:24] success stories seem to be becoming less and less common in the indie scene [16:24] i've seen some paid games made in love downloaded for thousands of times [16:28] bomb: we want names [16:29] setz_ (~setz@REDACTED) joined #love [16:29] I want numbers lol [16:31] moos (~moos@REDACTED) joined #love [16:32] Murii (~murii@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [16:33] Fran (~Fran@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [16:33] Goddamned feature interaction. silk doesn't run while lovedebug's console is open. %D [16:33] Fran (~Fran@REDACTED) joined #love [16:33] Move or Die [16:33] according to steamspy, Owners: 511,018 ± 19,531 [16:33] Price: $14.99 [16:35] https://steamcommunity.com/app/323850/discussions/0/350540973998114663/ [16:35] exezin: didn't move or die do decently [16:35] setz__ (~setz@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [16:35] EntranceToo (~EntranceJ@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [16:35] yeah [16:35] very very decently [16:36] over 450k profit I would assume [16:36] (at *least*) [16:36] holo: if I can make 5.5k in a year I could maybe survive [16:37] I think my lawn needs work [16:37] https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/tHXylUGS/image.png [16:37] lol [16:37] why is there a low-poly cat on her head [16:38] so I know that item attachments AKA hats work [16:38] and what better hat than a cat [16:38] ah [16:38] I could never get bone attachments working lol [16:39] https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/qNSnfcgD/uh.png [16:39] moos (~moos@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [16:39] kek, I even managed to get mine working with physics. [16:39] Shviller: can I have your magic [16:39] cigumo (~cigumo@REDACTED) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [16:39] https://i.imgur.com/jmZkA90.gifv [16:39] Once I have a saner setup, sure. [16:39] Thats as close as I got [16:40] that looks like mine before I made the flip matrix [16:40] My physics system is an insane variation of verlet integration. [16:40] holo: thats *with* your flip matrix, lol [16:40] exezin: your world axes don't match mine though [16:41] I know I changed the y and z [16:41] I think [16:42] https://hastebin.com/azuborixac.c [16:42] did I? [16:42] cigumo (~cigumo@REDACTED) joined #love [16:42] you just flipped which one is reversed [16:43] uh [16:43] idk [16:43] try making it go diagonal again and put -1 on y or z [16:43] ill note that down [16:43] not in the headspace right now to figure that out lol [16:44] I'm trying to figure out wtf is happening to my grass [16:44] Whats wrong with it [16:44] look at the images [16:44] its floating? [16:44] yeah uh [16:44] badly [16:45] lol [16:45] they seem to be stretching off toward 0 [16:45] hmmm [16:46] shader is fine I think [16:49] honest opinions please [16:49] https://youtu.be/YJ86IHvPNKA [16:49] if I made this into a full-scale game [16:49] would anyone ever actually buy it? [16:50] By full-scale I mean, long campaign, level editor, minigames, the works.. [16:50] I always thought floof was cool [16:50] side note [16:50] it would also include arbitrary softbodies [16:50] rather than just..balls [16:50] If you have decent levels and/or have it on Android, people likely would. [16:50] s/Android/mobiles/ [16:51] (as seen here https://youtu.be/If0KKTOUIm8) [16:51] Shviller: android port was always an idea [16:51] it would of course be scaled down a little bit [16:52] (also local coop https://youtu.be/k3r-kFu2bcE) [16:53] Serpent7776 (~Serpent77@REDACTED) left irc: Quit: Leaving [16:53] Meanwhile, partial code hotswap is so sweet. [16:59] see you later guys [16:59] bomb (~bomb@REDACTED) left irc: Quit: ... [17:03] acae180c8521c1f (~acae180c8@REDACTED) joined #love [17:05] Timmeh42 (~Timmeh42@REDACTED) joined #love [17:06] YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@REDACTED) left irc: Quit: YuGiOhJCJ [17:06] ok, I'm not losing my mind [17:07] BTW, how did it happen that in 0.9 love.math.random(n) was 0..n-1 and now it's 1..n? [17:07] 1, max is useful for random picks out of an array [17:08] True, but now it behaves differently than Lua's own math.random. Tripped me up pretty badly. Don't use outdated docs, kids. :( [17:09] Murii (~Murii@REDACTED) joined #love [17:14] moos (~moos@REDACTED) joined #love [17:22] wait, it was [0, n-1]? [17:22] I don't think so? [17:22] yeah, and it is consistent with math.random [17:24] Okay, talked aout of my ass (again) about math.random, but nonetheless, https://love2d.org/w/index.php?title=love.math.random&oldid=15172 mentions [0,max] which involves a 0. Not n-1, though. [17:24] And yup, this was the revision used in the Zeal docset, which I'm still unfortunately using. I should stop. :( [17:28] acae180c8521c1f (~acae180c8@REDACTED) left irc: Quit: Leaving [17:29] https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/HqnzzPPd/lawn.png [17:29] moos (~moos@REDACTED) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [17:30] Something's not right with that face. [17:30] don't worry about it [17:31] the model isn't even done [17:31] Nathan1852 (~Nathan185@REDACTED) joined #love [17:31] it's just what I'm using right now [17:31] moos (~moos@REDACTED) joined #love [17:32] okay.jpg [17:34] aliasd (~adee@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [17:39] moos (~moos@REDACTED) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [17:42] holo: can haxe -> lua optimize anything? [17:43] yes, remove the haxe part [17:43] lololol [17:43] jk I <3 u [17:43] generate optimized code you fool [17:43] :| [17:43] moos (~moos@REDACTED) joined #love [17:44] Shell32: haxe has good inlining, dce and loop unrolling and such, but I haven't profiled it vs writing lua normally [17:45] any inlining is better than lua's [17:45] it doesn't inline anytihng [17:45] also zero cost abstractions are nice [17:45] http://haxe.org/blog/zero-cost-abstracts/ <- [17:46] josefnpat|irccloud: u talkin shit [17:46] interesting [17:47] I wouldn't care about migrating everything to it if it save me time by doing a lot of dumb optimizations [17:47] holo: yo yo yo yo [17:47] i'm makin a video gaem [17:48] Shell32: I haven't profiled it so I don't know if you can expect it to actually help, the codegen can be pretty nasty [17:48] Shell32: but it's been treating me well [17:48] @holo did I invite you to the MSS discord? [17:48] I don't use discord lol [17:48] gotcha [17:48] what about classes and such [17:48] what about em [17:48] does it use metatables? [17:48] if anyone wants to hang out on my discord, hit me uppppp [17:48] when abstracting [17:48] or does it make magic [17:49] classes do, but abstracts and typedefs are free I think [17:49] I think I will just try my self some dumb tests [17:49] lol [17:49] it can also inline constructors and sometimes sink allocations entirely [17:50] I like the idea of having a language for everything, sounds like spir-v [17:51] and somehow the syntaxe is kinda C#ish I think, which I like [17:51] anyone developing the next crysis ? [17:51] how's game dev goin' guys? [17:51] my gamedev been pretty dead lately [17:52] I am! [17:52] https://twitter.com/josefnpat/status/884176680142737408 [17:52] next level gen graphix [17:52] josefnpat|irccloud: get back to work! [17:53] josefnpat|irccloud: I saw many people using pico [17:53] what's that? [17:53] josefnpat|irccloud: bullet-hell pico8 game? [17:54] @Shviller yes! [17:54] holo: what about editors for it, something like intelisense, does it work well? I never see one working properly for lua [17:54] Shell32: vshaxe is amazing and has really good completion (vscode) [17:55] haxe has SUPER good tools [17:55] not that it's an issue, I did learn to live without debug, auto complete etc thanks lua [17:56] setz__ (~setz@REDACTED) joined #love [17:57] josefnpat|irccloud: nice, any gb dev yet? ;) [17:58] actually [17:58] that's the plannnnn [17:58] I want to port PRIV to the DMG! [17:58] @exezin [17:58] heh [17:58] you wont get *far* with bullet hell games [17:58] just a heads up :p [17:59] moos (~moos@REDACTED) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [17:59] @exezin it's not really a bullet hell :) [17:59] ah ok [17:59] because you'll be limited to a few bullets on screen [17:59] and maybe two enemy ships [17:59] yeah, i know [17:59] uh oh [17:59] this [17:59] http://haxe.org/manual/introduction-hello-world.html [17:59] did turn into this https://hastebin.com/oxatisoyof.lua [18:00] @exezin it's going to be a RPG/scrollingshooter [18:00] considering RTYPE and other games have been made for the DMG [18:00] it should be possible [18:00] ah nice [18:01] I've been toying with an idea to get like [18:01] 30-40 bullet sprites on screen at once [18:01] by abusing the window layer [18:02] Well, didn't Gauntlet do a background trick with the NES version? [18:02] I think so [18:02] I bet you could do the same for the DMG [18:02] but the systems are more different than they appear on the surface [18:02] you also have to keep in mind how slow the DMG actually is [18:02] yup yup [18:02] josefnpat|irccloud: because remember [18:02] @exezin i haven't seen any work on your 3d engine [18:03] what gives [18:03] its *technically* a 1MHz system :) [18:03] ah [18:03] setz_ (~setz@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [18:03] just depression, lack of motivation etc [18:03] LordNed (~LordNed@REDACTED) joined #love [18:03] @exezin is it not 4.19 MHz? [18:03] :( [18:03] sorry to hear man [18:03] its considered 1MH'z by actual developers [18:04] any reason why? [18:04] its 1MHz for an entire system clock [18:04] ahhh, so the cpu is max 4.19? [18:04] but it's run at 1mhz? [18:04] cpu is 4.19, ram is 1.0, ppu is 4.19, vram is 2.0 [18:04] lowest common denominator [18:04] gotcha [18:04] an entire "system" clock runs at 1MH'z [18:04] josefnpat|irccloud: consider the gb color [18:04] that way you'll have double the clock rates [18:05] I've been prototyping a dmg game recently [18:05] josefnpat|irccloud: http://i.imgur.com/MV3U8C5.jpg [18:05] niceee [18:05] moos (~moos@REDACTED) joined #love [18:06] making anything look decent with 3 shades is..tricky [18:11] LordNed (~LordNed@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [18:30] http://i.imgur.com/7Mfd18d.png 3 shades [18:31] I think my menu looks good [18:32] dithering would make it look better but cba [18:32] just had to try :p [18:32] lol [18:32] Shell32: https://github.com/hughsk/glsl-dither [18:33] moos (~moos@REDACTED) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [18:39] exezin: http://i.imgur.com/UtQTCPa.png [18:39] hah [18:39] actually looks pretty cool [18:40] this dithering function is interesting for alpha test [18:40] no discard > discard > forward [18:40] Wonder if there's a staggered dither shader. [18:40] from less to most expensive [18:40] MasterGeek_ (~MasterGee@REDACTED) joined #love [18:40] and I mean, in case, to be used with discard [18:45] cryptic (~cryptic@REDACTED) joined #love [18:45] YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@REDACTED) joined #love [18:49] MasterGeek_ (~MasterGee@REDACTED) left irc: Quit: Quit [18:50] MasterGeek_ (~MasterGee@REDACTED) joined #love [18:51] Fran (~Fran@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [18:53] Murii (~Murii@REDACTED) left irc: Quit: Leaving... [18:58] Shell32: the boilerplate for haxe lua is a lot yes [18:58] actual generated code after that isn't so bad [18:58] there's just a lot of nothing [18:59] it's boilerplate for the target so dce ignores it or something [18:59] Fran (~Fran@REDACTED) joined #love [19:04] bomb (~bomb@REDACTED) joined #love [19:15] cyphase (~cyphase@REDACTED) joined #love [19:17] cryptic (~cryptic@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [19:19] https://www.amazon.com/L%C3%96VE-Game-Programming-Darmie-Akinlaja-ebook/dp/B00FF8OJYK/ [19:19] is this a good book? [19:20] bomb: meeeeh [19:20] it's for an older version of love [19:20] and it's missing a lot of stuff. idk though, only saw the sample. [19:21] hmm [19:22] zwzsg (~CGI278@REDACTED) joined #love [19:26] cryptic (~cryptic@REDACTED) joined #love [19:27] exezin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4XS5aqVSgU [19:28] Shell32: thats actually pretty neat [19:28] up it to 4 shades and make something out of it :p [19:28] lol [19:28] I use dithering in my psx renderer [19:28] http://i.imgur.com/B1VqOjh.gif http://i.imgur.com/5Qwbm00.png [19:29] This shirt dithering looks pretty bad. [19:29] its low res with a shitty color range :p [19:29] the crosses stay in place while the torso is shuffling [19:29] Thats how it worked [19:30] can you make it moar dynamic? [19:30] thats not how psx dithering would look so no [19:30] Well, fix it! [19:30] its not broken. [19:30] improve it! [19:31] no? [19:31] its designed to replicate psx effects [19:31] This is the same renderer with psx effects disabled: http://i.imgur.com/UcV26ms.png [19:31] http://i.imgur.com/4NGlapU.png [19:32] Here's a psx game thats running at a higher resolution, you can see the dithering http://i.imgur.com/0le2G.png [19:33] The dithering is applied to a framebuffer thats rendered directly to the screen, not each polygon, thus its not "dynamic" [19:34] cyphase (~cyphase@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [19:36] cyphase (~cyphase@REDACTED) joined #love [19:40] bomb (~bomb@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [19:40] Shell32: btw you might want to use haxe nightly, some lua nasty lua bugs got fixed [19:40] Shell32: if you aren't already [19:40] I was using it [19:40] latest [19:40] oh ok [19:40] how do you compile [19:41] and output to a different file? [19:41] it did simply overwrite everything [19:42] haxe.exe -main Main -lua test.hx [19:42] it does generate the lua and replaces the haxe code in text.hx [19:42] lol [19:42] -lua takes a filename... [19:43] yes [19:43] test.hx [19:43] haxe -main Test -lua test.lua [19:43] and then make Test.hx with class Test [19:43] oh [19:43] wait what [19:43] the module system uses filename/folder structure [19:43] how does it know [19:43] you don't need to give the compiler filenames [19:46] also the dithering shader [19:46] I moved the many else ifs to an array [19:46] but it's a *lot* slower [19:46] lol [19:46] I wonder why [19:48] should start testing that with other shaders [19:48] that uses arrays [19:57] sla_ro|master (~sla.ro@REDACTED) joined #love [20:03] joseph (~joseph@REDACTED) left irc: Quit: joseph [20:08] Nathan1852 (~Nathan185@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [20:19] cryptic (~cryptic@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [20:29] cryptic (~cryptic@REDACTED) joined #love [20:31] bellend (~bellend@REDACTED) joined #love [20:48] Nick change: Klowner_ -> Klowner [21:07] MasterGeek__ (~oftc-webi@REDACTED) joined #love [21:07] exezin: u around? [21:11] it seems not [21:11] Circuloid! [21:11] .tell exezin what do you think of this job? http://www.londonjobs.co.uk/job/prison-officer-opportunities-958482111?src=search&tmpl=dis&sctr=PS [21:17] Fran (~Fran@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [21:18] Fran (~Fran@REDACTED) joined #love [21:20] so apparently there's this new castlevania anime [21:20] and its pretty great [21:26] HammyHammerGuy1 (~HammerGuy@REDACTED) joined #love [21:31] HammyHammerGuy (~HammerGuy@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [21:36] raidho: is it good? [21:36] I may watch it if it is [21:39] cryptic (~cryptic@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [21:39] MasterGeek__ (~oftc-webi@REDACTED) left irc: Quit: Page closed [21:41] DanielPowerNL (~DanielPow@REDACTED) joined #love [21:43] well the animation is great [21:43] violence is graphic [21:43] people have appropriately thick accents [21:45] and it flows more like a novel, without trying to jam pack the time frame with action but without drawing it out either [21:45] sla_ro|master (~sla.ro@REDACTED) left irc: [21:46] it's different than most animation is what I have to say but it IS good [21:49] you know it's kinda odd, it almost feels like Sour Reaver [21:49] when you say violence is graphic, you mean gore stuff or just well displayed punches? [21:49] it's both [21:49] well, sasuga castlevania desu ... [21:49] Timmeh42 (~Timmeh42@REDACTED) left irc: Quit: Leaving [21:50] what about the plot, is it a new one or it's based on some characters from old castlevanias? (hope it's soma cruz) [21:51] it revolves around dracula and simon belmont [21:51] leiradel (~leiradel@REDACTED) joined #love [21:51] tells about how dracula's oppression came into being and what simon did about it [21:51] that's like the first castlevania plot? right? [21:51] i guess [21:52] a friend told me about that anime coming soon some days ago, it's nice to have distinct kind of games getting portrayed in animations [21:52] sadly, there are not that many good MMORPGs animes around afaik [21:53] just make sure not to make live action movie adaptation [21:53] word [21:53] then it's guaranteed to be botched in every way [21:53] unless it's made by the avengers direction team [21:53] i just watched konosuba [21:53] it's pretty cool [21:54] it's basically SAO except good [21:54] have you seen log horizon? I like it and it has it's odds but it is a good example of a nice mmorpg [21:54] have to watch SAO yet, but I have this gut telling me not to do so ... [21:54] don't [21:55] tldr it's harem but without any good action or plot or comedy or even fan service [21:55] konosuba? [21:55] no, sao [21:55] kk, got it [21:55] and after the first half it gets straight up atrocious [21:55] atrocious like school days ending? [21:56] i was excited for the duration of the first episode, and the second was OK too, but then I just felt like waiting when it's gonna get good and it never did, in fact it got worse down the season [21:57] also i don't recall watching school days [21:57] don't recall the name anyway [21:57] well, I have to say I tend to have the likes for bad animes, better said, I tend to finish any anime/manga content no matter how bad it gets if I started watching them [21:58] i was intend on doing that with SAO but I couldn't stomach it [21:58] fucking naruto looks like a masterpiece next to it [21:58] raidho: the school days stuff is a meme by the fact that it's genre is quite safe tho it's end features beheading and sick yandere stuff [21:58] naruto is good, at least I think so [21:58] disclaimer, have not seen shippedun [21:58] shippuden* [21:59] so yea watch konosuba [22:00] hmm, have to add to my "someday" list, but first have to make that list ... [22:00] let me add that list to the "maybe" list [22:00] put it before SAO [22:00] don't worry, not putting SAO anywhere [22:01] i put sao on 2 of my blacklist [22:01] anime blacklist and shitty VR influence blacklist [22:01] generally I'm used to watch quite soft anime, I mean I don't tend to go out of slice of life or comedy ... [22:01] and as for shitty VR influence, SAO's interface is the single worst offender, even worse than teleport-only locomotion [22:01] what I barely watch/read is watamote mainly and tomochan [22:02] ok, answer honestly this one, have you used VR for NSFW lewd stuff? [22:02] yea and it's pretty lame [22:02] it's a fucking 3d model [22:03] thank you for your honesty [22:03] fucking, 3d model [22:03] that was a curse or an adjective? [22:03] normally an adjective but on occasion both [22:03] ok [22:03] thank you for your honesty [22:03] depends on specific app [22:04] this is getting lewd [22:04] there are a bunch of waifu simulator apps [22:04] do you like waffles? [22:05] Erick (~Erick@REDACTED) joined #love [22:05] DanielPowerNL (~DanielPow@REDACTED) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [22:06] i was trying to goodle waifu simulator images but only flash porn MLP VN shows up and a bunch of unrelated crap [22:06] flash porn shows up because it's literally named "waifu simulator" [22:07] flash as in flash player, right? [22:07] yea [22:07] how much time before html5 porn? [22:07] lmao [22:08] don't laugh, it's a serious topic [22:08] holo: how much before html5 porn? [22:08] probably already exists ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) [22:08] you seem to know much ibispi, tell us more [22:09] i don't know actually [22:09] oh, ok [22:09] ͜ʖ ͡°) [22:10] in other talks, I have this feeling to let my inner artist free and did set up a rudimentary jack setup in my OS [22:10] now I need a piano kbd and a MIDI adapter ... [22:10] then lessons! [22:11] what os are you using [22:11] arch linux 4.11 [22:11] oh yeah [22:12] :)) [22:12] i use bitwig+jack on my ubuntu for music stuff [22:13] what's bitwig? [22:13] it's a daw [22:13] pinged [22:13] lol z0rg [22:13] are you pinged by dawg too? [22:14] only by daw [22:14] what about midi? [22:14] MasterGeek_: https://www.bitwig.com/en/home.html [22:14] dont care about that enough tbh [22:14] kk [22:14] shit protocol for notation [22:14] YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@REDACTED) left irc: Quit: YuGiOhJCJ [22:14] then what's better? [22:15] nothing yet, really [22:15] :/ [22:15] z0rg: [22:15] make it happen [22:15] i will in some regard [22:15] "if I enter the church and catch fire or something,.. it's your fault" [22:16] -Simon [22:16] Belmont? [22:16] yea [22:16] new Castlevania animated series [22:16] but why? shouldn't Simon get fortified there? [22:16] no [22:16] well, I know shit [22:18] Nathan1852 (~Nathan185@REDACTED) joined #love [22:18] what do you think about FLAC z0rg? do you prefer it over WAVE? [22:20] from a listening, storage, or parsing standpoint? [22:21] all of them [22:21] gimme your opinion, tho I would like the OGG format rather [22:22] listening is moot since it's lossless, so it doesn't matter; storage, yeah, it's more efficient than WAVE; parsing, well, wave is just riff chunks, so it's piss-easy to write encoders and decoders for it [22:22] first of all, no such format as "WAVE" [22:22] it's called PCM [22:22] it encodes a waveform directly, hence the extension .wav [22:22] still uses RIFF chunks [22:22] raidho+=1 [22:22] no compresison, no optimizaiton, no nothing [22:23] FLAC encodes waveform using a lossless compression [22:23] and they support (kinda) mp3 encoding as well [22:23] waves i mean [22:23] it produces IDENTICAL waveform as it was generated from, when played back [22:23] it's buggy as hell and nothing supports those, but it's still a thing [22:23] so it's equivalent to PCM uncompressed data, except it's smaller [22:23] hold up [22:23] I'm getting things mixed [22:23] z0rg: whatcha talking about? [22:24] let me try to be comprehendable [22:24] I was catching ok till the "buggy" stuff [22:24] PCM is a way to store data, representing analog signals, for example. WAV(e) files are containers for the RIFF bitsrtream format, which uses chunks [22:25] while technically wave files only support a small set of methods (pcm, alaw, mulaw), you can construct the chunks in a way that you embed mp3 data into it [22:25] into the RIFF chunks [22:26] it's not supported by night anything, but it's there, and it has limited usage [22:26] let me type out the example i know of [22:26] ok [22:26] . [22:26] hi exezin [22:26] hi [22:26] MS powerpoint - sound embedding; only works with WAVs (iirc the later pp versions), but that works with wav files that contain mp3 data [22:26] z0rg: sick [22:27] RIFF is a generic data container [22:27] with wavs embedded, the PP files would be fuck-huge; with this method, they're smaller, though still big [22:27] yes, and wav is just a file extension [22:27] nice, got it [22:27] MasterGeek_: I think that job is insane [22:27] wolfman2000 (~wolfman20@REDACTED) joined #love [22:27] now the question is, where did you both got this juicy audio knowledge? [22:27] wolfman2000 (~wolfman20@REDACTED) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [22:27] the point being, you might as well argue that ZIP supports all sorts of audio because you can embed such data in it [22:27] exezin: I think you can't complain ... [22:27] but yeah [22:28] or PNG, too [22:28] MasterGeek_: its incredibly difficult to get a job like that anyway [22:28] you need all sorts of qualifications [22:28] wolfman2000 (~wolfman20@REDACTED) joined #love [22:28] ok [22:28] I can't find a way to help homie [22:28] :p [22:28] well [22:28] I have a plan! [22:28] raidho: thing is, the RIFF mp3 embed is actually playable in certain cases [22:28] I'm certain that my plan wont work [22:29] but I can try [22:29] hope is the last thing to lose [22:29] though i guess you could argue, that Spore can import specific png files... [22:29] MasterGeek_: there [22:29] MasterGeek_: there's a clause in unemployment here [22:29] found a site: http://www.technologytrish.co.uk/pptembedmp3.html [22:29] you *can* remain on unemployment for the first year of self-employment [22:29] z0rg: yea if you program that in. You can program in loading an executable code from it, so in certain cases .wav files can be executable [22:29] i.e. not an argument [22:30] raidho: but as i said, this works already, i didn't program powerpoint to handle that case [22:30] but the spec doesn't say that this is something that would work [22:30] ms did [22:30] when did we jump from audiophile discussions to remote exploitation code? [22:30] it IS a generic data container, it can store literally anything [22:30] someone's missing the point but fine [22:31] yeah you are [22:31] :3 [22:31] :p [22:31] Action: z0rg a helicopter [22:31] now that we think of MS powerpoint, I recall someone here did use love for presentation purposes, which sounds gret [22:31] Action: raidho an attack helicopter [22:31] pew pew [22:31] :V [22:31] i got beat again, onoes [22:31] in any case [22:31] i got a lot of cleaning to do still [22:32] z0rg: you are a pork! [22:32] The one active user on my irc channel is afk for 6 months ;-; [22:32] time to buy a duck [22:32] oh lol [22:32] XD [22:33] if i was jewish i'd be offended at that, MasterGeek_ [22:34] oh, why? [22:34] are jewish clean maniacs? [22:35] they don't eat pork? [22:35] bc unclean [22:35] Erick (~Erick@REDACTED) left irc: Quit: Leaving [22:35] calling them that is probably just as bad [22:35] we can ask EntranceJew tho, if he'd be online [22:36] I see, thanks for the tip. [22:36] that wasnt a fsdkjglsdjg tip [22:36] :3 [22:36] 3: [22:36] ? [22:37] hmm, isn't tip a synonymous for advice? [22:38] don't start testing out the hypothesis is all i mean. [22:39] kk [22:39] so, what if I say you are a filthy man? [22:40] you'd be right, nowadays i kinda fail to implement any schedules [22:40] and i'm also into pron so yeah [22:40] ftsio [22:40] ? [22:40] Fuck This Shit I'm Out [22:40] what about html5 pron [22:40] sadly, porn is into me rather [22:41] ibispi: i prefer 2D [22:41] and yes, staying whole 3 days without touching water is nice every now and then [22:41] z0rg: that [22:41] that's not a limitant [22:41] limitation [22:41] ofc not [22:41] that too [22:42] cryptic (~cryptic@REDACTED) joined #love [22:42] this conversation is going toward place I would prefer it does not arrive so I must ask [22:42] what is a limitation is that i wanna play loli squid bukkake simulator 2 on release day, but i want the physical version, not the download :c [22:42] have you seen the topic? [22:42] sure, i'm in discord too [22:42] no I mean ... ok [22:42] i'm also procrastinating on coding something [22:42] in löve [22:43] so i am on topic [22:43] Action: z0rg ironclads logic [22:43] if that's the case, I'be being doing so since so much I can't remember [22:43] gonna start cleaning up and then having an ablution [22:43] tho love is nice, would like to have stuff to do with it but my main enemy is my lack of hope into ideas [22:44] a baff [22:44] kk, gg [22:44] no [22:44] not that [22:44] y u col urbanup? [22:44] wanted to see if baff referred to bath or not [22:44] since saturnz barz [22:44] gorillaz and all [22:45] actually ... [22:45] close enough [22:45] H [22:45] :c [22:46] rainbow ... [22:46] you seen the new acceptance flag that features skintones except white too? [22:46] no [22:46] good, i didnt want to discuss this anyway :3 [22:47] but you came with the topic [22:47] that's not the topic, haven't you read, :3 [22:47] ? [22:48] ok, I'm the one to blame [23:22] Guest1283 (~jacob@REDACTED) left irc: Quit: Lost terminal [23:28] holo: occlusion queries for what purpose? [23:34] setz__ (~setz@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds [23:35] Nathan1852 (~Nathan185@REDACTED) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [23:35] Shell32: did you see that i acted on your discord suggestion? :P [23:35] now I see [23:35] lol [23:35] joined [23:40] don't you just wind up bottlenecking on GPU calls when using occlusion queries? [23:41] leiradel_ (~leiradel@REDACTED) joined #love [23:48] leiradel (~leiradel@REDACTED) left irc: Ping timeout: 480 seconds